You know they try and build like a lot of a radical agenda. It's not a rap. Wait a second. Let's go. I'm going to do that one more time with the intro music. I'm very, very sorry. Take three ladies and gentlemen. That's it. It's over. Then we organize the death squads for the people who wrecked America. You know what you call people? You can't call two enemies. And if we want to divide our society into arms, camps, the end of the season, all we have to do is keep doing what we're doing. The radical agenda of the event has turned into an opportunity to the last to push a racial and radical agenda. Implemented their radical agenda is the only thing they care about. They're mad at us. What they want to do here is ram their radical agenda down your throat. This is great America. It's these are people that want to see great things to the country. You know they try and build up like a lot of a radical agenda. It's not a radical agenda. Let's go. The second. All right. Onward and welcome to the radical agenda. To show about timeless ideas and news today and whatever is on your mind usually at 217 688 1433. Yeah, that's my phone number. But tonight I got a guest on the line. I'm not going to have any time for you guys. So I'm going to be talking to this guy the whole time. Then the two hours going to go by and be like, can you stay a little longer? And I'm going to be I'm going to be rude to my guest. So I got to keep him on the line. I got no time for you guys tonight. But we do have a good show for you. You know, this is the, of course, the 34th episode of the six stage at a program today is September 29, 2023 being a current year. And it's a Friday as it tends to be when we do the live airing and a radical agenda. And I have here with me today James Franklin Edwards. And he is a man that I did done well to have discovered much sooner in my radio career ladies and gentlemen. 19 years ago, near to the day, he began a radio show called the political cesspool. Despite or perhaps because of being labeled the nexus of Hayden America by these soulless perfidious law fair criminals or the SPLC is they're more commonly known. And the most ardent efforts of all that the forces of darkness and chaos have to offer the show yet remains not only in those dark recesses of the internet so familiar to the radical agenda listener, but also on commercial airways from their flagship station, AM 1600 WM QM in Memphis, Tennessee and syndicated throughout the world by the Liberty News Radio Network. The rich history that he has developed over those two decades would be a fascinating story on its own, even had he not made a name for himself by among other things. His work with the Pat Buchanan presidential campaign of the year 2000 and making his own bid for the Tennessee House of Representions two years after that. And yet the rich history extends still further into the past. One might say that James Edwards was born for a time such as this. Writing at faith and heritage in the year 2015, Mr. Edwards reflects on his earliest memories with the following paragraph. He says, for me, the reconciliation of Christianity and race realism came quite naturally. In fact, when looking back on my life up to this point, I grumbled, thankful each day that I was born into a conservative Christian family with a mother and father who loved me enough to take me to church. From the time I was old enough to retain memory, I knew that on Sunday morning we would go to worship Jesus Christ by small Southern Baptist congregation. On those fues, I spent the early years of my life marinating in the word of God, and it made me a better man and a more effective advocate. On that foundation, Mr. Edward says he began considering politics around the time he switched from Briar Crest Christian school to homeschooling during his freshman year of high school, describing a distant memory of his father telling a man at a bowling alley that he'd be voting for Pat Buchanan in the 1992 Republican primary. Mr. Edwards came to understand why that was watching Pat Buchanan's Crossfire television program during those years. He was excited to know that he'd have the opportunity to aid Mr. Buchanan in his second bid for the nation's highest office, which was launched in the 1999. In the course of that activism, the gravity of America's racial strife began to be revealed to Mr. Edwards, and he made his first inquiries into what some call the Jewish question. While life in a conservative Christian household provided the foundation for Mr. Edwards to begin his life of struggle, his entry into the political arena provided the spark. Hungry for more action after you began his year 2000 defeat to George W. Bush, Mr. Edwards embarked upon the journey that leads him here today. No older than 21 years of age in the year 2002, an ambitious Mr. Edwards sought his place at the table of government would have bid to join the Tennessee House of Representatives, and that states 97th legislative district running without the support of a major political party. He felt the sting of defeat as the ballots are counted, but it retains bragging rights and is having received a higher percentage of the vote that any independent candidate in a three-way race prior to him. The campaign proved a formative moment for Mr. Edwards. As I know from some experience, such a thing can be four years later, he'd go on to marry the woman he was dating at the time. In addition to generously helping Mr. Edwards repopulate the earth with quality white life, a boy and two beautiful girls as of this riding, he describes her as an active participant in his righteous struggle, even prior to his becoming a radio legend with the launch of the political cesspool in the year 2004. Writing again at Faith and Heritage in 2015, Mr. Edwards says of his vision for the program. With regard to my work on the radio, it was my vision from day one to take the ingredients that have been so personally valuable in my life and share them with my audience. I wanted my show to serve as a leading voice that was at once pro-Christian God, pro-famil-pro-white family and pro-south republic. One of the biggest keys to our success has been that ability to blend faith in folk. The positive incorporation of Christian faith into my work makes my radio program very special people. Since then, Mr. Edwards has earned the distinction of being attacked by the sex pervert Luskabal, the better known as the SPLC. No fewer than 79 times. I'm going to have to work hard to catch up with this man. He and Prida Bremelow share the distinction of being the only ethno-nationalist. Papu Cannon has defended publicly by name. I was proud during both of my appearances on the political cesspool to join a long and storied line of distinguished guests, including the aforementioned Patrick J. Buchanan, who was joined, at least as many times as me. Anthony Cumia, who regular listener is no too well, has been a major inspiration for this production. Jerome Corzai, John Derby Shire, Steve Sailor, Jared Taylor, Drew Frazier, Jim Gilchrist, Ilana Mercer, Paul Fron, Kathy Shidley, Hutton Gibson, and Donald Trump Jr. David Duke has described the political cesspool as his favorite radio program. The show has also been praised by no less than Bob Whitaker, whom regular listeners may recall we discussed at some length, with the air to Whitaker's white rabbit radio, a very talented man by the name of Tim Murdock. Even as they attack him, the shallow, profligate, lecturist crowd, other known as the SPLC, could not help but praise the talent of Mr. Edwards. Writing in 2007 of his being featured at a gathering of the Council of Conservative Citizens, David Holdhaus says Mr. Edwards, the cesspool host is a rising star in a white and nationalist movement because he's articulate, charming, and equally at ease, and a television studio behind a radio microphone and standing in front of a crowd. He was specially invited as a guest speaker at the Triple C conference, his topic creating your own media, Triple C National Field Coordinator Bill Lorde told a Martin Luther Coon joke just in his introduction of Edwards. Lorde and other longtime Triple C members casually dropped racial epithets at the conference, but Edwards carefully avoided using such crudely derogatory language as he always does when speaking to public on the airwaves or to the media. Edwards aligns himself with hate group leaders who called black people. Well, he has a bunch of dashes in there, but this is the radical agenda who call people niggers, but he doesn't drop the enbomb himself. Instead, he speaks in the more or less polished code of a suit and tie racist, calling black, he then savages subhumans and black animals exclusively in a context of discussing violent black on white crime, which I might add. You know, there's no shortage of material to discuss there, obviously. And yet, Mr. Edwards knows another medium. He signs the crowd, the microphone in the camera. He is also the published author of the 2010 book titled Racism, Schmacism, how liberals use the R word to push the Obama agenda. And while you would be infinitely better off, to purchase a copy directly from James. And the link is of course provided in the show notes for today for just $14.99. His tact and talent for navigating this complex intellectual battlefield seemed to have spared him the fate of being banned from Amazon, where the paperback is still available for what is still a bargain price is just done to 50 bucks. Oh, to think what I might have a com, which had I discovered James Edwards before opian Anthony, ladies and gentlemen, a man of his experience and distinction comes around not often in this world. And though I regret not having learned of him much sooner in my career, I consider myself an listener quite fortunate that he graces us with his presence this evening for the entirety of our two hour live broadcast. And without further ado, let's let him speak because you've heard enough from me. James Edwards, thank you so much for coming on the radical agenda friend. Chris, I don't know what I can add to that. I think you've done a good job of getting my whole life there in the snapshot. And I guess that's about it for the show. I, you know, I, you know, I try to, I try to get it all in. And so, you know, I guess what just called a night, though. No, but. I'm going to be hard to add to that. But no, listen, I want to say this. First of all, thank you. That was the most comprehensive and thorough introduction I've ever received. You're the only person that has ever interviewed me that has used my middle name. And let's see what else. I'm a big fan of yours. And I hope that your audience knows that they have a national treasure behind the radical agenda microphone. I, of course, knew you by reputation. I've been mentioned of this on your appearances on my program, knew you by reputation. And do a little bit about your work. But it wasn't until your other worldly performance is acting as your own counsel in the Charlottesville trial that I just became absolutely enamored and couldn't wait for you to be available for some collaboration. I've been able to do a little bit of that so far. Yeah, I had a great time. Both of my appearances on on the political cesspool. And, you know, it's a, you remember, we spoke a little bit when I was still down there at the jail. Unfortunately, in jail, unfortunately, they, they swiped me up, shipped me off to Virginia and put me back in that communications management unit before I could get you the jailhouse interview. But, you know, I was glad to, you're one of the first people I spoke to when I came out. And I was glad to do it. It was a great, it was a great time. Well, for the people who were deprived of the opportunity to listen in on what was that media phone line where you could hear what was going on in the courtroom every word unobreviated, it was just, I've never heard, you know, you list listed just a small sampling of some of the people that I've had the honor of working with over the years. But I've never been, anyway, I don't want to put the shine on you too much. But this is true because I don't do this, unless it's earned, I had never seen a performance, not that it was a performance. I mean, that was just, that was just something I've never seen before. Not being afraid of turning. And it was like, it was sort of like a performance art piece. But it was also grounded in just, you know, a deadly legal way. I mean, I don't know, it was something. You know, I, I, I'm going to resist the temptation to talk about how wonderful my courtroom performance was. But I take your compliment and I thank you. I was there's a video of it. That was a BBD of it. It is unfortunate that video isn't there. But, you know, I have, I'm, I'm, I'm in better shape now. So, you know, I like, you know, people remembered me and I was, I was in one physical shape. And then I was, I was spent, you know, two years in a COVID lockdown eating garbage in a cell. And so I'm glad I lost some weight before people started putting cameras in my face again. The court room, the courtroom sketch artist, you know, it's, you know, it's, you know, you can say, you can blame it on him. You know, if you're like, no, no, I didn't look like that. But, so anyway, but I appreciate it, my friend. But these people have heard quite enough about me. You, you started the political assessment in 2004, but you describe as I read from your, your piece at faith and heritage. I mean, you feel like, basically, your whole life has been leading up to this hasn't it? It seems that way. I mean, you never know if the ingredients are going to bake correctly, but I was certainly in my formative years, put in a very stable nest. And, you know, I'm marinated in that nest with two stable parents. My dad was at once captain of the local fire department. He owned his own construction business, a concrete subcontracting business. He's been long since retired, but was also the school basketball code. So I had that sort of a male role model for that and my younger, for me and my younger brother. And then I stayed home mom. And so, you know, again, raised in church and, you know, very conservative family. And then, yeah, it was just the strangest thing. I mean, I don't know, however you want to, you want to believe that whether it was divine providence or fate or just dumb luck, but admit nothing to me at the time. I mean, absolutely nothing to me at the time as a 12 year old kid in 1992. We were on vacation and Heber Springs, Arkansas. And there was a tiny little bulwim alley there. It was actually Fairfield Bay, which is on the other side of the lake. I think it was Fairfield Bay four lanes in this bowling alley from vacation that summer means nothing to me. But my dad just said something about him. You know, he was talking to the bowling alley manager, this 80 year old conger. And he said, I'm going to be, you know, they were talking politics and he said, I'm going to vote for Pat Buchanan and the primary and the guy said, you know, he got a life of Buchanan, but he doesn't have a chance. This is when he was running the first time against George HW Bush. Right. I have no idea how that was filed away in my mind because, but in 1999, when I was sort of coming into adulthood, I was flipping through the channels. We were homeschooling by that point. And so at some time in the afternoons, waiting for friends to get out of school and was flipping through the channels, flipping through and then I'll see an end, a pass crossfire. There was Pat Buchanan. I said, you know, that name drinks a bell. That's the guy dead mentioned years ago. As I just started watching it because of that and then it just so happened that he announced he was running for a third and final time in 2000 as the reform party was going to seek the reform party nomination. He was actually running into the Republican primary and then he switched to a reform party and had a chance to, and even how that happened was really just unbelievable, but had a chance to latch on there and follow the breadcrumb trail one door leading to another and here we are in my entire adult life. It's been the only rod I've ever known. I've done this since I was 19 years old. It's some shape form of fashion. And of course the last 19 years is, you know, radio host. Did you, did you have any other political signaling from your parents? No, not really. I mean, I knew, you know, obviously they were conservative, but it wasn't really something that was talked about a lot. I guess I just knew instinctively, but there, no, there wasn't, you know, a whole lot of talk. I mean, my dad always told me, you know, that we were, you know, proud southerners and there was, there was some of that, but nothing that was really drilled into us. You picked up on it, but no, I mean, there certainly wasn't really a lot of talk about racial realities or any of the other stuff that I would become known for talking about, but I mean, it was there, but it wasn't overt. It wasn't definitely something that we, dwell on, and mainly just dwell on church, school, basketball, things like that, things that kids do. And so, all right. So you start watching in what year did you begin watching Crossfire? 99. Okay. It was in 1999, and this was round about the same time that he's announcing his run for the president. Well, I'm not, yeah, 98, 99 going into that because it was in the spring of 99, he was already in Iowa and doing the things like that. So it could have been as early as, as 98, but my first room memory of it was 99. And he wasn't doing very well in the Republican primaries. This is his third time. I mean, it's how Watermark would have been in 96 where he won some states and, you know, competed, and it was very competitive against Bob Dole and, you know, really should have been the nominee against Clinton that year instead of that resurrected cadaver. But yeah, it just, and it just turned out that he switched over to the reform party, he was going to seek the reform party nomination, and run as a third party candidate. And I was, you know, kind of browsing around his website and he had an appearance in Nashville. And this takes us to January of 2000. And he was going to be appearing in Nashville at, at the home of the state reform party coordinator for a little fundraiser. And it wasn't very expensive to get in. I can't remember how much, but I, I know it wasn't $200, $100, $200, you could come and have this little living room meet and greet with Buchanan. So I drove up there to do that. But I also saw something out, you didn't have cell phones that had the internet back then. And I went to the website at the hotel, you know, it's sort of like the business center earlier that day to make sure I had the right address. I was going to be there on time and all that. And it said something that there was going to be an event at the Hermitage, which was Andrew Jackson, which is Andrew Jackson's home, you know, former home in presidential library, Andrew Jackson's buried there, and it said 11 o'clock, the Hermitage. Well, that was about an event. I'll go to that, too. I got dressed when out there, and it had to be about 20 degrees that day. It was clear, and it was cold as hell. And I get there, there's nobody there. I mean, I'm not, there's nobody there. There's not even any other tourists. It's so cold, it's bad weather, and I'm walking around. I certainly don't see anything that looks like an event. They go to the ticket office, and I say, I'm here for the Buchanan event. Pat Buchanan's supposed to be here today right at 11. They said, no, we don't have anything scheduled for today. And I said, I don't know what, what's going on. And like I said, I couldn't get on the internet there because you didn't have phone. I didn't know who to call. I was getting ready to leave. And I'm getting ready to leave, and I see this suburban pull up. You know, this nice suburban, like you would expect. And it's Pat Buchanan and his regional coordinator, and then like a state trooper who was the escort. And he could say, and Pat Buchanan, this gets out of the car, he's just standing there. And I said, Mr. Buchanan, I don't know, I saw this was going to be on your website. I thought there was an event here today. I just wanted to come and meet you, say, I wanted to support you and look forward to being at the fundraiser tonight. And I think it was the state coordinator, the regional coordinator laughed. And he said, yeah, that wasn't supposed to be up there. That was that this was a private thing. And they put that up there just for a little while. I was surprised. I even saw it. I said, well, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to intrude. You know, I'll leave. I'll see you on a night. And then I got to Buchanan asked, well, you know, you're here. Do you want to come on the tour with us? So for the next couple of hours, it's me and Buchanan and another guy and the state trooper and the curator of the hermitage. And you're getting to go into like Andrew Jackson's bedroom. You get to jump on the bed, you know, we didn't really do that. You get to go by the scenes. And it was just an amazing thing just with the next couple of hours, just touring that private audience there. And of course, you know, we talked and I thanked him for letting me tag along. And then I'd seem tonight and I really wanted to help in any way I could with the campaign. And if there's anything I could do, and I was a nobody then, I don't know who I am now, you know, in terms of all of that. But, you know, back then at 19 years old, it turned 20 in the summer of 2000, midway through the campaign. I mean, you know, I had nothing. I don't have a resume. I didn't have anything. But they put me in touch with the state party. And I got put to work. And a few weeks later, I was like third in control of setting up the folding chairs in a bit. You know, the first two guys they're in charge of setting up the chairs, you know, died. I was out of be there to take over. But just really menial stuff like that. But I was ecstatic. I thought that was the greatest thing ever. What an honor. It didn't travel from Memphis to like Lexington, Kentucky to set up chairs. Just kind of be around the scene and just be around this atmosphere. And whatever I was asked to do, I did it to the best of my ability. And so the, you know, the whole, this reform party to that point had had some success with Perot in 92 and in 96. But the, you can and Brigades came in and just routed everybody and cleaned out all the state parties and just basically took them over. You know, whatever the bylaws were in that state, they had some attorneys, they had some advisors. They knew what they needed to do to take control of these state parties and get that ballot access. And so it was just a few days later that I was contacted by the, you know, newly minted board of directors in the state of Tennessee who were running the campaign for Buchanan, in the state of Tennessee. And I said, hey, we've heard some good things about you. Do you want to put on an organizing meeting? We need some district captains. We need people to go out and get signatures to get pat on the ballot in Tennessee. Can you put something together in Memphis? We'll drive down and speak at it to let people know what we're looking for. And I started working the phones and I'm rented out a little ballroom at the sports club. There was a tennis club. And I think we had about 60 people. And I don't know how many people were supposed to come. It's a good turnout. It's a bad turnout. This is my first time to ever work on organizing anything. We got there and I was like, you know, guys, I really work hard. I'm sorry, it's not a bigger crowd than this. And 60 people were like, what are you talking about? This is, this is like the biggest crowd we've had at any get together like this. Now Pat was speaking at this one. This was just sort of like an organizing thing to get volunteers plugged in a different vibe. They said, I think the best we've ever had before, this was like 15 people. So they were impressed. Then they called me a few days later. They said, you know, we need somebody to be the treasurer of the state party, which was the defective you can and campaign in Tennessee. We'd be willing to be the state party treasurer. And I said, yeah. And then I got a lot of little jobs. We got him out on the ballot. And then they asked me to be a delegate after a reform party nominating convention in 2000 and Long Beach, California. I was asked to be a national committee member of the reform party by the fall of that year. And then at the very end of the campaign, I was actually doing local press on behalf of the campaign. So the hierarchy was, I mean, it's not like Ramney Lee knows every private and the Confederate army. It wasn't like, you know, I was conferring with Pat about these things, but they had a regional director who appointed the state party director or the state to campaign director. And it was the state campaign director who started, let me do a little local TV and local newspaper interviews on as a spokesman for the campaigns. That's how that ended. So that was also, I mean, it wasn't just politics. You got your introduction to media at that point too, though. That's interesting. And organizing and organizing and working with people and getting people together and setting things up and what, what if any like, I understand that this was your first foray into this sort of thing. But what kind of jobs, if any, had you had before this, what did you done for work? None. I was 19. My dad had owned a, you know, as I said, at that time, he was still working the family business. And so I had done some work office work, you know, payroll stuff and helping him keep the books and things like that. But that was it. Yep. Okay. So working for your father's company in an office capacity. Right. And before that. Okay. And so, you know, when you, when you described this, you suggested that this was during the campaign was when you started to get your glimpse of the racial issues that we face in America and the, and your first inquiries into the Jewish question. You tell me about how that transpired. Well, I mean, the racial stuff growing up in a place like Memphis, you didn't really need a lot of on the job learning with something like that. But it was interesting. You know, race relations were really better in the 80s and the 90s. I mean, they're certainly better than they were now. And of course, there's always been a majority black population in this part of Tennessee. And you've always been around them. And I don't know how our enemies like to pretend that those interactions go. But if I'm always as polite to any of them, I see them every day. Treat them differently than anybody else coming and going, you know, open a door, whatever you see them at the grocery store, wherever you're at. So I mean, it's just never been a problem. But I mean, yeah, obviously you kind of look around. You know, some neighborhood or more prime written and not as nice and extrapolate that throughout civilizations. And I mean, you know, there's racial differences. But no, it was actually much later that the understanding of Jewish issues kind of came to be. Like I said, I kind of at that point in my life in my late teens and early 20s, I kind of understood, okay, well, I understand why people think, you know, have these views of racial realities. What a Jews ever do. You know, you take that sort of like the advanced, that's the next level of understanding. And then of course, that did come later, but not much later, but I don't think it was, you know, in the, there, if you can, it can't paint that that happen. That was probably a few years into my radio show. But I really begin to develop another standing. And what I say about that is we don't need to rehash all of that. I'm sure everybody knows what's going on there. But it's just that, I mean, it has nothing to do with the fact that these people are necessarily Jewish. If they were Jewish and using their talents and abilities and financial resources and all that to help our people, that would be their biggest cheerleaders. Unfortunately, they don't do that. And in fact, they do the opposite. So yeah, you know, if I could just rewind a little bit. So I mean, growing up in Memphis, Tennessee, you, you were able to discern basically, okay, there's, you know, we're different from these people. But you, you have cordial relationships with them. Yeah, yeah, I think that's a good way to put it. We're different, but there's no, you know, real animosity until it got to the point where it is now. And a few years ago, they're starting to, you know, take bulldozers to to monuments. And there's just so much more violence. I mean, it really was just not like that. What about, I mean, at what point do you think would you say it took on a political significance? Because, you know, for, for me, I guess I started to become aware. I didn't think much about the voting patterns, right? So once I realized that they were reliable Democrat voters, I was like, okay, well, this is something that actually bothers me about it before I even, before I even look into genetics or anything like that. What is the genetic origins of any of this? Once I realized it was a political problem that became a more significant thing for me when, describe your political awareness of it if you could. Well, I mean, it's already as the Buchanan campaign. I mean, certainly you look around and immigration was always a big, big issue for Buchanan. And so yeah, yeah, you understand pretty, clearly and pretty simply that you look at the nations that are successful. You look at the racial demographics of those nations and the racial makeup of those nations. You look at these third world nations. If we begin to import an overload of third world people, are we going to bring them up to our level? Or are they going to bring us down to that level? And you know, I actually said this on one of my appearances on CNN. You can't have a first world nation with the third world population. I think I knew that even as, you know, I see a teenager. Right. And so you, this takes on a political significance during the course of the, during the course of the Buchanan campaign. And this, you mentioned this appearance on CNN. Is this the Paul Azon thing that I read about? Or is this it? You know, I would have been, you know, see that would have been my first time on CNN. And that fast forward just to 2007 when I was on. Let's not get that far ahead yet. Yeah. And so during the course of the Buchanan campaign, now you had met your wife prior to, prior to, prior running for office, but were you with her during the Buchanan campaign? I met her in the summer of 2001. Okay. So there would have been a year later, six months, seven months after that campaign. Can you tell me how you met your wife at church? Oh, that's right. But she wasn't going to the church. She was actually a friend of the pastor's daughter and they were in high school together and she came as a guest. And it, I was asked to come up for a church camp trip. And I was driving a truck at the time, pick up truck at the time. And my pastor just spent a lifelong friend of the family. I mean, he was pastoring that church before I was born and had been the, been there when my grandparents were still alive and just, you know, all the way through it. Just always been a near and dear close friend and actually helped me on that campaign for state representative and all of that. But he needed, he needed the truck all luggage up there and to the campsite, which was about two hours away. It's not very true. Pastry came over to my house just the night before. It just totally ran them because that wasn't going on the trip. And this girl didn't go, who became my wife didn't go to the church at all. So, you know, again, one of these hands of God acts of God type of thing, I guess. But I said, sure, I'll help you carry some luggage up there. I'll be up there, get 10 o'clock in the morning, whatever time it was. And then when I got there, he said, we actually have a couple of extra people that signed a blake. Can you haul two people also? And I said, sure. And when them happen to be hurt. So, that's how we met. We've been in, we didn't start dating at the time, but we've certainly been in contact ever since. And then at some point, the course of you are dating this girl, you're like, I'm going to run for the Tennessee House of Representatives. She's like, you're crazy. Or... No, she was always on board. Everything I ever did, she was just 100% supportive of. If I was involved in something, she wanted to be involved with it too. And she was out there, you know, just as a teenager, by that time I was in 2002, my birthday's in June, so half the year and one day, at the young, the other I guess, but I turned 22 in 2002. And now she was out there wherever we went, wearing the Edwards for Representative, the Lecht Edwards t-shirts and passing out flyers. And if we had a booth at the county fair or the town fair, wherever we were at, she was out there, stuffing letters, whatever, menial tasks. But we actually ran to win that thing. And that was also, an off-sino of the Buchanan campaign. I had met so many people that were just such wonderful people during the Buchanan campaign. And of course, all the reason we were in the reform party at all was just to use that as a vehicle for Buchanan. And there was actually, you know, when we started that thing, of course, you know, I said, you know, if nothing else is a consolation, maybe we can be destructive to the Republican Party. That would have been my consolation. But, you know, he wasn't really running as a spoiler. There was some thought or at least some hopes that because Ross Perot had done so well in 92, the reform party, even by the time Buchanan was running, was still getting federal matching funds. And I can't remember how many millions of dollars it received from taxpayer assistance. But it received that because Perot had done so well again in 96. And Perot had participated in the debates before. And so there was some thought that, hey, you know, he's going to get the federal matching funds as the reform party nominee. No, the third party was getting that. He's on the ballot in all 50 states. I could talk to you for an hour about that. These ballot access laws, I got a PhD in third party electioneering in 2000. They vary, they vary wildly. As some states, you need like 25 registered voter signatures and each congressional district and like 50 at large. Some states you need like Texas, you need tens of thousands and you got to pay a prohibitive amount of money just to get on the ballot. He was on the ballot in all 50 states. He was receiving this taxpayer funding. The reform party was still a recognized party at the time. So there was some thought that he would get into the debates. And if he could get into the debates, they thought he right really be able to do something. But there were some lawsuits and they were able to change the the election commission was able to change the requirements. And so he was forbidden from getting into the debates and it just never really went as far as we had hoped. But I'd met so many wonderful people that year. And we just worked so well together. We just great people. And I just wanted to keep the band together because there was some talk that after the Buchanan campaign, he wasn't going to be actively involved in the reform party anymore. What happened to the rest of us? You know, we all disband, we all just kind of quit. Because I've been with these people for, and it wasn't like we would just show up the things here and there. I was with folks in that event just about every week of that of that year. So if I could ask you to refresh my memory of the history here because I'm a little unclear. So Pat Buchanan, he ran, he ran for, he pre-imped president three times. Was it 92, 96 and 2000? 92 was the time he ran against HW Bush. And that's when he gave his culture war speech, which was just sort of like the foundation for Trump really. I mean, that was the thing that really started to crystallize the movement. It was a big catalyst. So he didn't, you know, do particularly well in 92, electorally speaking, you know, in terms of, you know, he didn't win any primaries, but he was the only guy challenging Bush because Bush was the sitting president at the time. And he was able to make a lot of noise and get that plum spot, the prime time speaking plot of the Republican National Convention that year, the cultural war speech. And he parlayed that to his 96 run, which was a sidewalk, as far as the presidential candidates. Runnigans Bob Dole came in second out of the field in terms of number of votes and number of states one. And, but of course, the establishment, you know, was totally behind Dole. And Dole ended up, you know, getting run over and crushed by Clinton. And then he ran again a third time, a third time in 2000. Again, started off as a Republican. Just wasn't getting the traction he had had in 96 and then switched to a form party. So yeah, three times. Okay. So in the first two, he runs strictly as a Republican candidate in the Republican primary seats. He loses the primary. He accepts his defeat in the primary in the 2000 campaign. He begins as a Republican candidate and then he moves over to run on the reform line. That's right. Because again, they knew the reform party was going to get, unlike, you know, the litany of other third parties out there. reform party was going to get federal matching funds. And that was their argument to be included in the debates because Ross Marrow had been included in the debate against Bush and Clinton in 92. Okay. And so this was, I think, of Ross Barrow as an independent candidate, but he was running on the reform party as well, then. He built the reform party, but it's his party, but he built it up to the point where it was competitive enough to where he became a legitimately recognized party. I mean, obviously, we're the part of the duopoly, but it had a leg above any other third party platform, like the Constitution Party or a green party or whatever. It was in a different tier in terms of legitimacy at that time. But after that was over. And of course, you can't have had gallbladder surgery right after the convention and was just kind of sideline during the last couple of months of the campaign. But yeah, we were doing stuff. We put, we were putting together stuff just about every week for the campaign and, you know, really out there and ended up doing media. But anyway, long story short, I don't want to necessarily go back all that. It was just that I've met so many people that I've gotten to know with. I mean, they came out family over the course of that year, the different delegates and the different folks in the state party and the southeast region. And I said, you know, I really don't want to kind of lose this camaraderie. If I ran, you know, as a reform party candidate for something like the state house representative, you think we can keep everybody together? They were all interested in doing that. And so we were able to kind of extend the the life line there of our association. I can still name like every delegate from each of the congressional districts that we had. I mean, it was just a really magical time in my life and very important. And so we kept the band together, you know, through November of 2002 when I lost. But we actually ran to win. And I was young and not even enough to think that we had a shot, even though I was going to get the speaker of the house and listen, drink Republican incumbent. But I mean, I was out there every day. I still got the shoes of my addict 20 years later. Well, I just, I would address every day, I mean, dressed nice every day, slacks and nice shoes and literally ran, you know, walk holes and the bottoms of both shoes and knocking on doors. We were out there. We were sending out mailers and we had yard signs. We actually had a campaign headquarters and a little strip mall. I mean, it was for the amount of money we had to spend with what which was not much. We really went all in. And I really thought that, you know, we'd have a shot at doing something because we were going to talk to every single voter in the in the district. It was one of these really compact, you know, suburban districts where you can, you know, drive from one end of the district to the other in about 10 minutes. So you really had a chance with about 30 or 40 people, which is what we had regularly out there, you know, throughout the campaign, knocking on doors and making phone calls and sending letters. And so we really thought we could do a little bit better than what I did. But, you know, that wasn't, that wasn't where I was supposed to be. In a district where you were, was it a, it was where the race is usually competitive between the Republican and the Democrat or was it when it did it lean one way or the other? Well, so this would have been like, you know, the suburb is of Memphis and there's several different state legislative districts in town. And no, I mean, they're not competitive at all. The Republican would win, you know, like 85, 15. Okay. I guess the Democrat. Okay. In the district that I ran in, it was very conservative. District, which I thought we would have a good shot because we're more conservative than the Republican. And importantly, I was, you know, what occurs to me as you're described, you know, I ran as a libertarian party candidate in the year 2010. I ran for the United States House of Representatives. And I, I met a lot of resistance from my fellow Republicans who were like, you're going to give this seat to the Democrats. You know, you're going to destroy this country. You're out of your mind, you know. And at the time, I didn't take that very seriously at all. I was like, you know, it was like, well, if the, you know, if the Republican party isn't going to give us much of a choice, then what used do I have for the Republican party? If you, you know, if you guys are going to be holding hands with each other, then, then, you know, I don't really care. And, um, you know, and so I met a lot of resistance, like fierce resistance. You didn't have that experience. They didn't, not in this particular district. I mean, you would have gotten that in other districts. Although at the time, I was so incensed with the Republican party for the, how they had done, you can't end in 96 and 2000. I just thought he should have been the guy. He was the guy that base wanted. I mean, now I think the level of respect that he gets, it's almost, you know, godlike in terms of he was the godfather of what became the movement that propelled Trump to the presidency. And he's getting recognized now for what I thought that he was then and what I knew him to be then. But no, in our little, in our little, you know, state house district, it was that the Democrats didn't even feel candidates, you know, most of the time. So it just, yeah, it was, that one, an issue, although I wouldn't have minded if I had run and gotten enough to spoil the Republican victory at that time. But that, you, I understand we're skipping ahead in our timeline a little bit. But do you have a different view of that today? Do you believe that, you know, that there's enough of the difference between the Republican and Democrat parties that, that, a candidate playing spoiler is a significant phenomenon. I think it depends on if you're talking about on a national level versus a state level, you know, sorry, you know, with people like Mitch McConnell, for instance, I mean, yeah, I would probably reverse back to, to some of that mindset. But there is a big difference in Republican controlled state legislatures in Tennessee and in Alabama and in places like that versus, you know, certainly what you're getting in Democratic states like New York, where you see all of the law fair going on or even in Democratic areas like Atlanta. I mean, you would never see, you're not going to see Trump getting arrested and indicted in these red states with, you know, Republican state D.A.s. I do think Republican attorney general, you know, state attorney general. Yeah, certainly I think on a state level now, there is a difference between the two parties on a federal level. It can sometimes be muddied. But yeah, state like Tennessee is good as a Republican controlled state convene. I think Tennessee is a good example of that. When I ran as a libertarian, I didn't even make the ballot. You mentioned those ballot access, you know, rules can be crazy. And they were, they were certainly such that in New York. And, you know, the way that they do it, if you're a right in candidate, they'll count how many right in votes there were. But unless that's enough to change the outcome of the race, they don't read the names on the things, right? And so, when I ran, I didn't make the ballot, but I had shaken hands with, you know, I don't know how many thousands of people. And, and people said, well, you know, if you don't make the ballot, you know, what then what? I said, well, you can write me in, you know, I wasn't, you know, running a right in campaign per se, but I, you know, people knew that they could. And in the end, you know, the, the Republican ended up losing that race by like less than 200 votes. And there were 300, 400, something right in votes. And I don't know how many of them had my name on it. But you better believe that the Tea Party guys helped me responsible for costing the Republican seat in 2010. And that did not make me any friends, when I say it, and you know, in 2010, you'll remember, you know, this was, this was sort of a contentious time in our politics, say, you know, yeah, right? Right. We're at the Tea Party era, right? Yeah. Exactly. What a blurs together now. But yeah, I can remember, we're a lot further and a lot better off in many ways now than we were then in terms of the radicalization of the, of the formerly Buchanan now Trump base. I mean, it's the Republican base, that's pretty based. Yeah. And so, um, so you run this race, you're, you're, you're, you're hope, you did, you say that you felt the sting of, uh, defeat on as the balance or counted. But I mean, did, was there a point during the race before that that you sort of thought, all right, this is a messaging campaign at this point. Or did you think on election night that, you know, there's a good possibility you're going to pull it out? We ran to win. I mean, again, I, I guess you have to be 21, 22 years old to be that naive. But yeah, I just thought if we could meet enough people and we could knock on enough doors, we had good literature. I mean, we really did run a tight campaign. We had good campaign literature. We didn't need a lot of third party candidates or independence or whatever. They'll put their name on the ballot. They don't really run. I mean, it was a full-time job. We were out there every day. I was out there every day and most of the time with, with quite a few other people. Uh, and, uh, you know, I certainly wanted to deliver a victory to, to keep, you know, to keep the party together. And, you know, now, of course, looking back on it, yeah, the only way to win a race like that, independence and third party candidates aren't going to win. You have to be the Republican or Democrat. You know, so, you know, certainly I've matured, you know, as far as that goes. And I see it for what it is now. But yeah, I remember been a big campaign party at my parents' house. That a pretty decent house. And we had a lot of about 50 people there that night. A lot of people that I met back in 99 in 2000 and, you know, some other friends and supporters that I picked up along the way. And I remember seeing the first, you know, results coming in right when they're first getting the first, uh, returns. And we were at about 15%. And I just, yeah, definitely felt very deflated. You know, I at least wanted to be competitive. We're not working to win. I at least wanted to give it a good fight. But now looking back on it, you know, I do think we probably overachieved to anything going against the, you know, guy who's now the secretary of state in Tennessee, going into a guy like that with no money and no name recognition, you know, getting 15, 16, 17% whatever we ended up that was pretty good. You know, that's almost, I'll round up. I'll be generous. I'll call it 20%. I think it was about 17%. You know, what out of 5 ain't bad for something like that? No, that is not bad. And, you know, and your first attempt without the support of a major party, I would definitely say that that's significant. And so, um, you, now you launched the political cesspool in the year 2004. But I don't imagine you took a nap between 2002 and 2004. What were you doing in the meantime? What much to do? You know what I learned to do, Chris? I mean, I was still sort of involved in the state reform party. But there wasn't, by then it was the date already changed. And you know, these third party groups splitter. But then I think we were the America first party. And, um, but there just wasn't anything going on. You know, there wasn't anything going on. And I was thinking, maybe I would run again in 2004. But in 2003, I think I went up a friend of mine who was also in the state reform party at the time, um, was friends with Willis Cardo. And he took me up to Washington to, you know, what was then the, and still is now, the American Free Press office. And he says, Hey, this got, this is my friend James. Everything went up and that with Willis Cardo. And, um, he said, he's, you know, he said he's looking for something to do. He's done this. He's done that. But he really wants to stay involved. So they let me write, you know, the occasional article for the newspaper. But I live in that. And, you know, sort of going through the motions with the remnants of the state party. And again, not much happening there on that front. I learned to fly. I didn't know anything else to do. So I took pilot lessons and at a local, uh, little municipal airports. That's what I did for about a year. And then that, uh, in 2004, so I'd been kind of spinning my wheels just, you know, trying to look for another opportunity. But in 2004, if you can believe it, this local station that was reformatting to talk, somehow, some way, some guy remembered me having run in that race. And it actually made a little bit of news because there was a little bit of controversy in that state representative race where, my opponents campaign were going door to door removing my literature. And they got caught doing it. And the local affiliates, uh, you know, Fox, CBS, ABC, NBC, all the local Memphis affiliates actually covered it. And how was just, you know, a few days before the election, it was like late October of 2002. Well, anyway, so it made just enough news to wear somehow, some way and explainably, nearly a year and a half later in the summer of 2004. I get a phone call and they said, I remember, are you still involved in politics at all? We've got this radio station that's going to be reformatting to talk and we're looking for shows. Do you want to have your own show? Have you ever thought about getting into radio? I'm like, you got to be kidding me. You know, of course, I was intimidated. But I didn't want to pass up the opportunity either. And I never, I didn't know anything about radio or anything like that. But I certainly wanted to do something. And that was it. And we started in the fall of that year. It took a few months for the station to completely convert over and then get the station up to snuff because it had kind of been abandoned and they had to fix up the interior and all of that. And our first night on the air was October 26, 2004. Now I just think it may be great if I could do this for a few months. So you didn't, were you, did you listen to talk radio? Were you a listener of any, no, you were not, you're not a talk radio listener. Some guy at a radio station is like, I remember seeing you on TV a couple of years ago. Would you like a radio show? You know, it was one of these stations. Chris, you know how it works. I don't know if a lot of people do. But very few people get paid to be in radio. If you're not that Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity class, you're probably paying to be on radio. And this station was looking for paid shows, paid programming. Right. And so, uh, yeah. So I've had a contractor radio in radio for a long time. But the money kind of goes out and said it coming in as far as that part goes. Oh, wait, so wait a second. So was this, this was a sales pitch then? They're like, would you like to pay us to have your radio show? No, it was just they were looking, you know, they had to fill, you know, as much paid programming as they, as they could. And they were looking for people that, you know, at least seemed to be credible. You know, I guess, you know, I guess they knew me a little bit. And so that guy kind of seemed like he wasn't totally crazy or whatever. And so yeah, that's how the opportunity they were just looking for, she never looking for local people who would pay to be on the radio. Okay. I understand. So that's interesting. And I mean, and I want to make it clear to the audience, as you mentioned, it's not uncommon for for radio hosts to pay for air time. Yeah. Al Jones pays for a lot of his airtime. Jesse Lee Peterson. I mean, it's actually more common than the other way around. Yeah. No, it's just, it's amusing to me because, you know, usually when I talk to people who have been in radio, there's some kind of like, you know, they, they're, they feel like they're on some trajectory towards radio. You basically get what is essentially a sales call, right? So somebody calls you up and is like, hey, I'd like to sell you some airtime. And, and you're like, you're like, oh, well, you know, we'll see if it works out. I mean, our 19 years later, I'd say it did, you know, what's that direct? I mean, it wasn't like, you know, hey, these are our terms. I think it really was, you know, kind of a courtesy friendly call just to see if I'd be interested and then, oh, by the way, you know, this is what it's going to cost. But I mean, I guess you could say that, but it was, I didn't feel like it was that. I don't think they would have necessarily given the airtime to anybody. No, no, no, I, I, I want to be clear. I, you know, I, it is, as you mentioned, very, very famous radio hosts are paying for airtime. It's, it's a perfectly reasonable thing to do. And you have managed to turn that into something that's really significant, I think. It's just, it's interesting to me. I, I did not know that it began as it did. And that's, that's very interesting. And so, um, you go into this studio. You've, you've, you've done some media before, you know, you've done some interviews and whatnot. You've obviously, you're comfortable talking to people and whatnot. Um, you had, um, now you, you went in there with a, a small team of people of my understanding, right? What was the, there's one of the guys that I met. Uh, it was just the two of us when we first started and he, he stuck with it for about a year. But, you know, if you're not making big money and he, he had the time to see, I, it was just another, just a perfect stroke of everything in my life, it seemed to just work out perfectly in a sense of I was where I needed to be at the time. And, and, and at this time in my life, still in 2004. So by now I'm 24, but I'm not yet married. I don't have kids. I'm not saddled with a lot of debt and, you know, mortgage and, and all the, you know, grown up stuff that, that, that, you know, I would get not too long after that after I, you know, settled down and got married, you know, I'm still even though I'm, you know, fully an adult now at 24. It's still, you know, you're not, you're not a husband and a father yet. So it's, it's definitely a different, a different thing. And, uh, I, I just had the, the time at that time to do something like this and take a shot on it without it bringing in any sort of revenue, just to, you know, see where it went. And at first I, you know, I took it very seriously. And I did it as professionally as I knew how at the time. But, you know, I was just sort of like a fun hobby thing to do. I would just, people just see where it goes. It was just kind of, you know, week to week month to month. And then the guy that, that I started with, he was in that season of life where like, hey, and back back then we were on five nights a week. We were Monday through, through Friday. And he was working as a, as a car dealer. He owned a car dealer. She, you know, used car dealership. And I think he had another job too. And, but he was married and had three kids at the time. He was like, man, I just can't keep doing this. It's just, you know, we're not making, this isn't making money. I was like, yeah, I never thought it would. But, but, you know, but, yeah, but I got it. I mean, it was just that, uh, you know, I had a wife and kids and he couldn't work all day. They go to the radio station for two hours a night. And then it just, I'm surprised now looking back on it. It's hard for me to have that perspective at that time because I wasn't in that season of life, but that the fact that, uh, he lasted a year out of those conditions was pretty impressive. But once he left, it was just totally my show. And then it really started to become the show that it is now. And we brought in, I started, you know, bringing in other people. And, and at the time that you begin doing this, um, what were you doing to pay your bills at the time? It's still working for the family business. It's still working for the family business. Okay. And so you begin this, uh, you begin to do this radio show. This is essentially a, a, a, passion, a political project and something in that vein. And, um, it did you, at what point did you begin trying to monetize the production? Well, I mean, you know, we definitely were fundraising, even at the time, you know, contacts that I knew that had helped me and my campaign donors that we had for my state house campaign. People I knew from the beginning campaign. You know, anybody that I'd worked with politically, I'll let them know that I was doing a radio show. We're going to, you know, use a lot of the ideas that, you know, Buchanan was using. And we're going to have a show here. It's a, you know, radio, and you know, would you support us? But of course, you know, over the years, it's become, you know, much more structured and, you know, again, professional and really, you know, military type of operation. We do the quarterly fundraising drives and it's, it's really well run. And of course, it's just all trial and error learning. But now we, we were trying, and I believe me, I was trying to alleviate the, the liability to the extent that I could. But, you know, but when you're first getting started, it's a new project. You really don't have any, any laurels that you can hang as far as your ability to do good. And, you know, with this particular platform and we hadn't been through any fires. And I look back on an Alchrist, man, if you haven't, you know, been savaged by the medium, if you hadn't walked through the fire, and if you hadn't been battled tested and time proven, you know, I'm going to have a hard time understanding why I need to support you. And until you take those licks and you've proven yourself worthy as an, as an activist and as an advocate of somebody who's not going to apologize, somebody that's dependable, somebody that people can count on and bank on, yeah, that was really rough. I mean, it was certainly a big financial loser, you know, the first couple of years. And when you, when you enter into radio, is, are you by this point openly embracing ethno nationalism, or does this come later on down the road? Very early on, I tell you, I still remember, man, I can't tell you how many thousands of hours I've done on, on talk radio, but so I can't remember all of it. You know, certainly there's a lot of highlights. And if people, you know, would trigger my jar, my memory, I tell you, and I can tell you the rest of the story on that. I remember that now, but I still, I'll never forget the first show. I mean, just, you know, nerves race, it's very nervous, setting in the studio about to go live. I had everything, everything I said, I think on that first show, I was reading from a piece of paper, I like written the whole script down, just the whole thing. But it was, the very first show we did was right before the 2004 election, which was Bush versus Carrie. And I think that my first, you know, monologue or commentary was about the lesser of two evils, and both of these parties are, you know, no good for us. And stuff like that, it was sort of like, you know, the Bush versus Carrie election preview thing. I do remember that. But yeah, pretty early on, I mean, certainly, that was in October of 2004, certainly by early 2005, the very first couple of months of 2005. We were having people online, Bob Whitaker and Virginia Abernathy, and we were, we were definitely already starting to go in that direction because that's one thing I wanted, I wanted to be clear to do. I certainly wanted to have, you know, sort of like if you can an S type of personality, because I always think he came across as just so humbled, but jovial, and you know, he had a good sense of humor, but it was also very serious. And you know, I don't play a character on the radio. These are just some of my natural tendencies and attributes, but be real, be who we are. And, but I certainly didn't want to get into this. Well, we're just the local conservative talk, or another, you know, budding rush limbaugh or something like that. I certainly wanted to be talking about because how many shows are like that? Every, every major market has the guy that wants to be the next entity. He's just the local entity. He's reading the conservative, incorporated press releases. He's reading, you know, the RNC press releases. And I just, you know, I was never going to do that because that's never who I was as a candidate or as somebody who's interested in the Buchanan campaign. I always wanted to talk about the issues that other people weren't talking about, but then I was thinking, you know, what about these people out there that I think have something interesting to say that nobody else is really giving them, because you got to understand, and I'm sure you remember back in 2004, anybody, the amount of podcasts and live streams now has, are ubiquitous, and it really proliferated around 2015, it just kind of blew up. And there's a lot of people out there, yourself included and yourself, especially, that are just doing incredible work, incredible work. And we have so many fine spokesman now, but back in 2004, there wasn't anybody else doing this. I mean, 2004, Twitter wasn't even online yet. I think Facebook made just come online, YouTube wasn't up yet. So that's why the Southern poverty law center fell in love with me, while they've written about me so many times, is that back then we were sort of like the only media and pound-spoken media. I mean, there was VD Air, there was an AMRIN, there was, you know, web zines and some print publications, American Free Press stuff like that, but yeah, we were really, I don't know if anybody who was talking about pro-wide issues is early as 04 and 05. Yeah, it was certainly not something that featured prominently in my political awareness, you know, during that year. And so, but early on, you said you mentioned Bob Whitaker, so I mean, you're bringing on gas or advancing an ethno-nationalist, you point by this point, this is not, you know, my, my, my, what raises to my mind is, you know, for, you know, the SPLC's one thing, did you have any concerns about the FCC, your own broadcast, airwaves, you know, these types of things, did you have any concerns about them at all? No, because, you know, we don't curse on the air, we don't advocate for anything illegal, we don't talk about insurrections or violence or anything like that. So I certainly didn't think there would be any reason for it. I mean, we're a very polished show, very professional. I mean, it's like, you, there I say a family-friendly program, but we do talk about these issues, but we do it in good taste. And, you know, that was another thing that I can remember back then. I never in my life that I could I have foreseen at the time what was coming. I just thought, sure, people may disagree, but this is America and it's a, you know, people can agree to disagree and all of that. I mean, I had no idea what's telling the truth and love that was going to bring down on me. But once it did come, I was very resolved to just understand and have the faith and the security of knowing that I'm not saying anything wrong. I'm not advocating for anything illegal. I have no reason to apologize. And so I'm not going to apologize. And I can remember it with certainly within the first few months we were on the air, I got a call from a local reporter saying, Hey, you know, I didn't, this is how I found out about it. It was an NBC affiliate reporter. Hey, we just heard that you're going to be listed on the on the hate watch report. You're officially listed hate group now about the Southern poverty law center. Do you have a comment about that? Actually, received that in a voicemail. So I had a moment to kind of think about it before I called back and listen, I get it. I mean, if you haven't been through before, you're thinking, and this is never true by the way, folks, so remember this, you're thinking, the whole eyes of the world are on me now. Everybody's watching, but really nobody cares. And a new cycle now lasts just, you know, a matter of minutes. And then, I mean, it's always the internet. You look me up. I mean, it's going to be racist, bigot, neo-nazi, white supremacist, anti-semite. I mean, I get all of that stuff there. But it's never caused me to trouble in my personal life, my personal relationships. And I know a lot of people can't say that, but I've been fortunate in that regard. Never lost a friend because of it. If anything, it's gained me a lot of friends. But I get, you know, the knee-dirt reaction is like, apologize or explain. And I had a guy who was a big mentor of mine at the time. He was just tactful, noble, and brave. Just had great, great takes and great advice. He passed away way too early. His name was Bill Roland. He was helping me with the radio show. He passed away in 2013. I think it was about 50 years old. But I just said, hey, you know, I just got this call. The press is there's going to be a big, it's going to be all in the paper tomorrow, all the local outlets are covering it. I mean, you know, what do you think? And he just said, well, James, you know, if you do what most people do, you're going to lose everything you're building towards. You know, nobody's going to trust you. And I know I probably don't need to tell you this. But you're not going to carry any favor with them. Apologies never work. And I wasn't going to do what I wasn't thinking about doing it. But I really didn't know what the thing, because it kind of came out of the left field and it was a happy, you know, they just, I just got this message and I was trying to wrap my mind around. I instantly called Bill. And I thought of a he said, but it's your decision and whatever you decide to do, however you decide to play it, you know, I'll support you. But just think about it. And I know you'll do the right thing, you know, I love it when people say that. I'm sorry, I know you mentioned it, but how long after you got on the air, did this occur this thing with the press coming after you? March of oh six. March of oh six. You're on the air a little less than two years. And now the Southern poverty law centers coming after you and the press is getting involved. About a year and a half. Okay. And yeah, so I called the press and we did a little press conference and they came and this is where they're of course, you know, they expect you to say, well, you know, I'm sorry, there must be misunderstanding. Of course, I'm not a racist. Of course, I'd disavow racism. Of course, my best friend's black and all that stuff. That's what they expect you to do. And I just said, you know, listen, I'm a hammered right there in my face. It's my first time. I've done some media before and certainly been on the radio. But this is the first time you ever like really under fire. And you know, back in the mid 2000s, it was a totally different thing now where people kind of are numb to these accusations of racism. I mean, and I think we have Donald Trump to thank by Lord for a lot of that. They saw everything the man did was racist every day, every article, every report, every media radio TV racist white supremacist walked on water to be racist. If you get cancer, it'd be white supremacist. So I think, you know, now it's sort of a different feel for that. And you have a lot of conservative, incorporated types now who we're kind of saying pro white things now. But back then, it really felt like it was real lonely place to be. But I, the cameras were rolling, white hot lights that they put on you. They just said, you know, do you want to give a response? This is where they expect you to do what I call the white whip shuffle. I just said, this is a great day for me. I've been waiting for this little while. I'm ecstatic to be on this list. I don't think you've arrived as a as a leader unless you've been placed on this list. And I think I called them a group of communist and civil rights hustlers. And I think I thanked them for placing me there. And that was it. And you know, it certainly didn't stop them from coming back. But yeah, I mean, at that point, you have only one choice because they're going to call you what they're going to call you no matter what. And you have a choice as to whether or not you can betray your people or whoever's supporting you and your convictions and your beliefs or not. And you can offer them your dignity and your self respect or not. And that's really the only thing because you're not going to sign step what's coming. Yeah, they all they do is smell blood in the water when you do that. And there's just, you know, that's you don't placate predators, right? And so and so you meet this controversy in this was in March of 2006. I understand that that's not far from the time you married your wife, is it? Now that you mentioned it, I've heard yeah, well, yeah, we got married in May of 2006. And I didn't really put the two and two together because just, you know, they had nothing to do with one another. But yeah, we got married in May of 2006. So it's not a bad matter of fact. We had when this actually was, it was a front page news in the daily paper here, the Memphis commercial appeal the next day. And I remember getting a copy of it you know, the news stand we actually went out. We used to our little group of friends back in the time was we would we would we loved going to do karaoke. So we went to karaoke bar that night. I remember holding that I was singing a song and holding up the front page and everybody was cheering and you know, so it was fine. We got married about three months after that. Okay. And um from there, what what what happens next? Uh, just trying to build build brand, you know, it was it's still in 2006. I mean, I think by then we might have been coming close to paying the bills, you know, associated with production and keeping the website up and things like that. But yeah, it was just day in day out tweling in the vineyards. I mean, I guess I could say that all the way through to the current day. I mean, every every week it's weekend, week out day in day out trying to do the best job you can and put every amount of effort you can to get in a thoughtful program with good topics and interesting guests. But, but yeah, I guess the next big thing that I can remember would have been again about another year later. Because of the attention, I think because of the idea, the attention that the ADL and the SPLC were lavishing on me. And maybe ADL, the SPLC was basically their blog at the time was like reading a diary because you didn't have all of these other content creators back then. So they were reporting on just about everything we did. I mean, you know, so many of those 79 articles that I think that we've been mentioned in on their website, um, you know, came with the, you know, those first few years. And we still get coverage. Uh, I think they're writing a story on us right now. They wrote one earlier in February of this year. So we still get it. But I mean, it was pretty intense back then. And because of the attention, I think that was brought about in large part by our opponents, we really started to gain a, you know, reputation. What better work? Start working with the, um, at what point do you start getting syndicated? I don't know if that began with the Liberty News Radio network or when did you branch out from AM 1600? Yeah. And I mean, you know, of course, we're talking about syndication. I love Liberty News Radio network. But you know, we're not talking about clear channel here where I'm in every market. I mean, they give us a boost. And it's, it's great. And Sam Bushman is the owner and he is a trot and true friend. He is a man of honor, encourage, uh, and loyalty, which if I had one characteristic that I'd like people to know me for, it's, it's being loyal to the people who deserve it. Now I'll never betray a friend or a comrade. But yeah, they picked us up in 2009. And I've been on Liberty News Radio. We're still on the local station here. They give us, you know, they give us a boost. They get a few more in a few different ways. But we've been with them since 2009. But the next real big thing again, because of the controversy, I guess, generated by the SPLC and the ADL, we began to sort of, uh, you know, come of age, I guess. And more people in the movement started to the movement, you know, whatever that is, you know, our cause, our universe and orbit. They're like, hey, this guy can stand up for himself. This guy, not only, you know, can he sort of articulate the issues a little bit, but we know he's not going to crack. And it started to get picked up by, by, by broader media too. And it was in the, it was in the spring of 2007 that I got my first call from CNN, who undoubtedly had heard about me, you know, because of some of this stuff. I mean, I don't think they were just, you know, randomly listening to, to the show. And they brought me on, uh, you know, I have his, Chris, if you're part of a story, if you're the subject of a story, you know, you can get pressed that way. If you're intimately involved with whatever they're covering, they were actually bringing me on as a commentator. And they did regularly for a very short period. Uh, but they would bring me on to talk about issues that I was known for talking about. I think the first time we were on, we were talking about self-segregation. And this was the Paul Azon show at the time we were on for a full hour. I'd say we the royal way because it's like embarrassing to say, I, but it was a Jesse Lee Peterson. That's where I met Jesse Lee Peterson the first time. He and I were on one side of the debate table. There was two black, uh, other blacks on the other side of Paul Azon. There was an hour-long debate about self-segregation. That was their prime time eight o'clock Eastern show. Went up to New York and did that. And they got me on a couple of other times in, in, in rapid succession to talk about, uh, immigration and talk about the Knoxville murders of, uh, uh, Shannon Christian and Christopher Newsom. They had me on a debated NAACP spokesman, but they brought me on and introduced me as a conservative talk radio host, which of course is what I consider myself to be at the time. Certainly not bringing me on to say, here's white supremacist James Edwards. And, uh, but it was, it was funny because CNN was, you know, paying for my travel and they were doing all of that, introducing me as it, you know, correctly, I might add, but then that got the ADL-related like that. I got, you know, I got informed that they were going to bring me back anymore. But then you fast forward. I didn't like you winning those debates. They wanted you to come on there and say a bunch of racial epithets and threatened violence and it didn't work out well for them. And so the ADL down the goium know, um, shut it down. Yeah. Um, and so, uh, I, you're, now this is, uh, in 2007, you go on, uh, CNN this bunch of times, I recall reading in the Southern poverty law center, you were featured at the, um, a conference of the, um, the conservative citizens. What was the third conservative citizens council, right? The council's impervious citizens. Yeah, we're conservative citizens. Yeah. And so you went to, you were a feature to that conference. I imagine, um, uh, the Southern poverty law center definitely spoke about that at the time. And it was before or after your, um, string of CNN appearances, right in the middle of it. Okay. That was after my first, but before the subsequent ones. And so the, uh, the, the council of conservative citizens, if you'd speak a little bit to that organization, I know that they've been around for a while. I'm, I'm not intimately familiar with the operation. But I mean, they, they've, they've played a significant role in the movement over over the years, right? They did. Uh, I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's, the, the fun to now, there's still a conservative citizens foundation, which is, you know, sort of a sister company. But when the principal, uh, the CEO, Gordon Baum passed away, um, several years ago, it just kind of stalled out at that point. But yeah, it was, it, it was a tough organization. I love the council of conservative citizens. Uh, I would have actually got to become a member of their board of directors. And I spoke at every conference. The SPLC focused on that 2007 conference. I spoke at every conference they had for many years. And I'm at so many great people there. Um, again, and that's where I really started to get to know people like Jared Taylor and Sam Dixon and some of these folks who were, you know, usual suspects at, at, at, at, at, there. And just really being out there every single day, um, going to small events and doing small media and sometimes, you know, the occasional big media, I mean, just day in, day out, we get to a week and month, that the month, year after year. But the council was, you know, it was, it was basically that. I mean, Sam Francis was big into the council of conservative citizens before he passed away, which he was a big time columnist in, in Washington, DC for some major publications. And, uh, yeah, I mean, it was again, uh, it was, it was certainly, certainly had more of a racial animus. It was definitely more explicitly pro-wide, but it was, you know, most of their issues wouldn't have looked hardly any different than the Buchanan platform, for instance. And, uh, but it was it was, it became, you know, increasingly hard, especially after their leader passed away. It was a collection of local chapters that made up this tapestry of a national organization. And they were, you know, active in every, every city, certainly, and maybe not in every state, but certainly in the, in the south, um, the Herald Orange presence, but it's just that tough thing when, especially once you got into the age of social media and doxing to ask all of these local directors and their local members to come to these open meetings and, and just, you know, run the risk of getting, you know, fired or, or whatever. And you just have a lot of risk and, you know, everybody's doing it as volunteers, not a lot of reward, you know, in terms of, uh, you know, certainly you're not getting paid to do it. I'm talking about the people who were the local chapter directors. It was just always constant turnover because of that. And after Gordon passed away, that was pretty much that. But it gave me a wonderful opportunity to practice public speaking, you know, as I was still sort of evolving as a talk radio host and met a lot of people there that became lifelong friends. Um, and it was, you know, again, that was just another important chapter in my story and, you know, stepping stone that helped me along my way. And, um, in the course of this, um, now in the piece that I read at Faith and Heritage, you said that you started to make your first inquiries into the Jewish question. I presume by the time that you're getting attacked by the SPLC, you're a little bit more aware of this than you are going to get 2000. Can you describe it all? How, how you, um, how, your, your, your foray into that category of thought? Yeah. Uh, uh, that, the Faith and Heritage article that you mentioned, they had contacted me. I was friends with the editor. Uh, this was a Christian oriented web scene. Uh, they don't publish new content anymore. They, they, uh, were going for a few years. It was a Christian oriented web scene, uh, that was also pro-life. So that really fit me to a T. And they asked me at the time to, to write sort of like an autobiographical piece that they could publish. So it was, you know, pretty accurate as of 2015. Obviously, you know, lots happened in my career personally and, you know, professionally since, you know, in the last eight years to say the least. I mean, really a whole lot, you know, with the Donald Trump campaign and maybe we'll get into that. But, uh, yeah, the, the Jewish issue was, well, I was trying to figure it out. I was like, you know, what, what, what is it about the Jews that people don't like? I don't really understand this. And then I, I started to look into it. And then, you know, of course, I, I'd seen the pieces floating around, uh, you know, about, you know, Jews run Hollywood, Jews run the media. You know, but I'm talking about like their pieces, like Joel Stein and the, the LA Times and some of that stuff. And I was like, okay, well, if I, you know, I certainly think that the media is anti-wide. And I certainly think that the media is anti-Christian. And okay, well, I, I'll take them at their word. This kind of checks out. They do have a disproportionate amount of influence here in the media. Now, what about banking? What about international affairs? What about, you know, the, the, the lobbies in Washington, DC? Are these in our best interests? Or these in the best interests of my family or not? And every time, you know, just, you know, it was a red light. It was a red flag. And so, yeah, you just sort of been getting to develop an understanding. But now, you know, I understand it for what it is. And, and, and again, just wish that, you know, at some alternate universe, they would have used their power and resources, their power and influence to help us, you know, because it's, people think that there's just some sort of irrational hatred. And I know everything our people do and say it's hate, hate, hate, you know, it's, it couldn't possibly just be because we don't want to get, you know, steamrolled here. But it was, for me, it was a difficult thing to sort of get at first, right? Like when people are calling into my show, I mean, I sort of got red pill to the immigration thing, right? I'm seeing, you know, I mean, you know, I grew up in New York. You can't help but be exposed to diversity, right? And you sort of realize that, you know, there's demographic patterns that you notice when you go from one neighborhood to another. And this doesn't necessarily present so prominently when we're talking about Jews, right? And then when I start talking about immigration on my show, then people are calling in Jews, Jews, Jews. And I'm like, get away from you, Nazi psycho. Yeah. You know, I literally tell about Mike, you guys are crazy. You're out of your mind. And, you know, as I start to look into it, you know, I was, I was finding myself having trouble refuting some of the things that people were, you know, saying to me. And I was still in thrall to the libertarian movement at the time, you know, and I'm like reaching out to other libertarians like, can you come in and, you know, help me refute the things that these guys are saying? And that's when they stop to answer in my emails. And I was like, oh, yeah, it was a, it was a, it was a complex process, I'd say, you know? Yeah, I mean, I just try to be open and, and receive things and haven't, and be honest about what I'm, what I'm learning. And again, this just is, it is what it is. And, you know, even, it was it, yeah, to your point, I mean, living down here in the South, you know, Southers don't have much awareness of the Jewish issue. Certainly they didn't go in back, you know, tens of years or, you know, a few decades, even in the, in the civil rights movement. I think most of the people, the so-called civil rights movement, most people just thought these were liberal whites, you know, who were coming down here and organizing all of this stuff. But, you know, of course, that wasn't the case. Yeah. I should probably just read a couple of things from my, from my Odyssey people pay me and, and I want to thank them for that. Libertariats has sends $14.33. If we donate more, he can get a producer. Wouldn't that be a heck of a thing? Elias sends $25 and sends a period, a punctuation. And I am very grateful for, for that period. And for the $25. Thank you very much, Elias. And so, in the, as you're going through this, you know, sort of intellectual journey, you, you're now you're being attacked by the SPLC. The, tell me about some of the like, when you're reaching out trying to get guests, what is that process like? Did you have a guest book or are you calling people up or what's that process? You know, I am such a obsessive compulsive guy. I don't delegate well because I, I don't know if I can do things well, but I don't think anybody can ever do anything better than I can. You know, so it's like, I just have to have my hands on everything on micro-manage. I try to be a perfectionist and sometimes I get in my own way and it's sort of, you know, a handicap. But no, I, yeah, I do, yeah, I do most of all of that. And it's because of the kind of show it was, though. And, and the kind of show that it is, I knew what kind of people I wanted to have all, I'm the kind of people I wanted to feature was the kind of people who were, you know, already sort of involved in their own way. And, and who weren't, who were either being hushed up by the establishment press, the mainstream press, the control press, or, you know, just being outright misrepresented. And, you know, so it's people like that that we wanted to have on. I think our top three guests are Jared Taylor, Kevin McDonald, Sam Dixon, Mark Weber, you know, David Duke's up there, you know, so of course, you know, these people aren't likely to say no. And there's never really any been any, I can't think of anybody that I ever really, really, really wanted that said no. I'm trying to think of anybody who might have just said no out of hand because of who we were, what we were talking about because I think if people get to know me a little bit, they understand, and I think people now really see it, you know, especially with the SPLC as far as they're concerned. I mean, they've got a lot of trouble right now with, you know, their staff attorney getting in and arrested on domestic terrorism charges and now he's being indicted and he wasn't able to skate off of that. Now, he may not be found guilty. Maybe he's not guilty. I don't know. But then I was, I was interested that it was interesting to me that they weren't able to just get it completely cleared off. Then you got to, you know, 20 of the state attorneys general in the country have sent a letter into the Department of Justice saying the SPLC is an utterly discredited source. I don't think that kind of stuff. I mean, it's, you know, it is, I don't think it's humsion that they're not the good guys is something that's a pretty new phenomenon, right? What do I think now? I mean, conservative, you know, you've got people like Charlie Kirk and Matt Walsh and people like this who are saying the exact same things now that they were kicking people out of their meetings for saying two or three years ago, and you got people like that now saying if you're not being attacked by the SPLC, you know, what's wrong with you? They're saying stuff like that now. So, uh, but yeah, I mean, we've, and we've interviewed a lot of mainstream people. You can't even come on every time we asked if, do I, I joke, and this is a joke, but I said I had a quit-ass compact to come on because you kept saying yes, and every time you would come on, you would just get brutalized in the media for it, but I mean, he was just such a great guy. Of course, he's still around, but he's retired now. He's in his mid-80s and all of that, but yeah, I mean, we've interviewed everybody from Ann Colter, Donald Trump, Jr. I'm trying to think of anybody. Surely there has been somebody, and sometimes you get the thing, he's like, oh, I forgot. I got this come up, and you don't know how sincere that is, but that's very rare. I just can't think of anybody really that ever said, just no, I'm not going to come on your racist. I don't think it's ever happened. Maybe I'm not setting my sights on. What about- I'm sure I'm sorry. Yeah, there's some trouble with I think Jerome Korsai, right? Yeah, I'd aim on one side, and then he was supposed to come back, and then he canceled you, like, oh, they put pressure on him or something like that. Yeah, that did happen. He'd come on a couple of times, and this, Bill C. Had just done an article about him coming on, and then- now he didn't even- even in that case, I mean, what pissed me off about that particular incident, and I like Jerry, and even after that, I think he still quoted me in his book, where's the birth certificate or whatever some years ago? Because we'd actually interviewed a guy who was working in the Hawaii elections office, and he said there's no birth certificate here. Now, that he would have had access to it. He said, there wasn't a birth certificate from Rocco, by what I want to why. I didn't get into all of that. I mean, that was never- that was never an issue that- like necessarily blew my skirt up. I mean, whether he was born in America or Kenya, he's still- they're still calling him President, and I mean, they're not going to remove him. You know, people want to chase that rabbit that's fine. It wouldn't surprise me if he wasn't born in America. That wasn't ever an issue that I had like a particular fetish over. But we did have this guy, and Drunk Course, he was really interested to be put in touch with him, and we put him in touch, and we got a nice citation in the book for it. But yeah, that thing with Course, he was- we were actually already on the air, okay? We were on the air, and it was like a segment before we were supposed to call, and then he- then he even asked, oh, I forgot I had to take a train, and I'm not going to be able to- I'm just going to upset me just because of the timing of it. I remember getting pretty hot with the commercial break. I was pacing out in the lobby. But, you know, but even he didn't say, well, it's really because of this, although maybe it was, but he'd already been on a couple of times, and- When you published racism, smashism in 2010, right? And tell me about- tell me about putting that book together. Tell me about the book. Well, I mean, about that- about 2010, it looked like we were going to be able to stick around. We've been on the air about six years, we've got a pretty good reputation with our- with our niche, and it- it looked like I'd be able to keep doing this for as long as, you know, I wanted to. And hopefully, we would go to greater, bigger and greater heights, but it looked like we were going to be pretty stable in keeping the show on the air for as long as, you know, I wanted to keep it going. And of course, I still love it as much now as I did 20 years ago. So I hope we can keep it going and continue to do- to score victories and- and, you know, whatever success we've had. I hope our better day, you know, our best days are ahead of us. But yeah, in 2010, you know, it's like, well, if you're going to be on the right now, you're going to have a book, right? Well, again, it's a self-published thing, but it looks good. It looks good. And the reason I wrote that book was- that was, again, 2010. This is the Tea Party heyday. And I just saw over and over. And the world has changed since 2015, but it's really changed since 2020. It's since 2020's where you've had, and for a lot of reasons, a real naysend understanding of white racial consciousness within the Republican voting base. That's just in the last three years. Specifically, but if you want to go, you know, back to Trump's original campaign, you can go back that for, but it's really been the last three years. But back in 2010, and it was a whole other world. I mean, all anybody had to do for 99% of our people that they got out of line. If they were like a half a step to the right of Comrade Stalin, you call him a racist, and they're going to completely surrender the battle. They're going to spend their wheels arguing about how they're not a racist or how the Democrats are the real racist. They're going to do all that silly shit. And it's just not good for our cause. So I wrote that book, racism, shmacism, how liberals use the R word as sort of a, you know, introductory was written on an elementary level. But it was really this introduction to these white people in the tea parties, frankly, who were certainly natural allies, but they were still getting too caught up in this game of what is and is an racist. And so I wrote the book and it has a lot of fun stories about what was examples of racism at the time, like a police officer was on duty and he was eating a banana. And he got like a black complaint, stuff like that. And just sort of mocks the whole charge and lets people know that hey, take it from me, you get called this, don't apologize, don't get into it, never ending debate about whether you are, you are. And just understand that racist means white person. And that was basically the whole book. It was sort of like to say, it was meant to be this great level social key to unlock the social political nuclear bomb of the R word. And it was really written again for the tea party, I can remember Glenn Beck became one of these self appointed spokesmen for the tea party. Big rally. I mean, I actually got interviewed by CNN. The last time they interviewed me and they interviewed Peter Bremelow too. And I think the topic was our whites racially oppressed. And it had to do with this, you know, the tea party movement. And again, a lot of these people would go on to become the Trump base. And they certainly got to their final destination, I think, by and large. I mean, they're really not, I mean, the conversations we're having here wouldn't be out of place in the home of any rank and file, or if I'm looking now. I really would. I think you would have a commonality with them. Back then, I can remember Glenn Beck had all of these disaffected whites in the tea party. And he had thousands of them come to the national wall. Glenn Beck was there in Sarah Palin. And you got all of these disaffected whites. I mean, they're waiting for a guy like Trump. You know, they're waiting for somebody who's, you know, gonna, gonna even though Trump really didn't do it. But he certainly didn't back down from the charges of racism, which I thought was good. But they certainly want somebody to harness this energy and lead them. And then here's Glenn Beck in front of the Lincoln Memorial. And he begins the whole talk by saying, you know, it was on this day. And thank you for coming today. It was on this. I just want you to know that it was on this step right here where the great Martin Luther King wants to start. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna step one step below this and address you from here because I'm moving the, you know, the seeks to emulate. And I was like, now, as I said, that's why that was actually, you know, one of the things that led me to write the book is like, these people need to understand a little bit better about what's going on out there. You know, I, you, you've had an opportunity to observe this longer than I have. I mean, what, what do you, you know, the, this sort of timeline, I read a, I read a couple of interesting books about sort of the history of the conservative music movement when I was in prison. And, you know, one of them is actually written by Matthew Contanetti, who's like a neo-con. He buried Bill Crystal's daughter, the guy. And it was kind of funny to, it was funny to read this book because, you know, sort of the way he frames the history of the conservative movement is, okay, so, you know, this, this group or this person was, they were gaining some prominence. And then they did racism. I had to go buy by. It's sort of how he describes this thing. I mean, you've sort of had these, over the years, you've had these sort of purges that like, okay, if people are gaining some, some traction in the thing. And then they, and then they utter an opinion that is at odds with some of these entrenched interests. And then, you know, the national review or whoever, you know, pounces on them where they get kicked out of the national review if they're working there. You know, what, what, what do you think about, can you sort of try to encapsulate some of the timeline of the interaction between race realism and the conservative music movement? No, it's really easy. I mean, it's just, it's, it's, it's, it's clear as day and you're right. Back until the last few years, anybody who said anything sensible about race was just immediately savage and fired. And you, people like Sam Francis and Joe Sobrin, I mean, some of these really leading American political philosophers, you know, couldn't, couldn't, couldn't beat the rat. And that was pretty much the way it was all the way through the Trump administration. And then I think, you know, there's a lot of reasons for it. And I get into it in my, in, in a speech that I gave it American Renaissance a few weeks ago. But it was really just how wild the year of George Floyd was that I think, I think that was the turning point. I think that was the turning point for, I mean, the Trump base was already kind of warming up to understanding that, hey, you know, okay, we get it now. Everybody's a racist. If you're, if you're not, you know, entirely on the woke agenda, you're a racist. Okay, we understand, they understood that by that point. They didn't understand that in 2010. But it was after 20, it was during and after 2020 where you had, you know, these weaponized law enforcement agencies like FBI, the DOJ, you had, you know, Black Lives Matter and antifa getting away with crackling cities. I mean, you really had what Sam Francis wrote. It described as an arco tyranny, where you had, you know, conservatives getting like, you know, like you, you had different people getting sent out for years, you know, for minor infractions. And sometimes, you know, just saying things that people didn't like or being around people that, I mean, just the shaman has no things, which is crazy. But, but, you know, again, that's still 2017. But yeah, the origin of mob violence in 2020, the taking down of all of the historic American monuments, how there was just so much going on that year. And I went through about 10 different points that I think were the reasons why you began to have a sense of racial solidarity amongst whites that has developed and really blossomed in specifically the last three years. So I'd say 2020, you had a lot of, you know, like a hurricane, I guess. You had some of the conditions becoming favorable, but after 2020, they all sort of coalesced. And now we're to the point now, where, as I say, you know, these major conservative, incorporated types are saying things that wouldn't be at a place on this program. And Tucker Carlson was doing the same thing on Fox News. I mean, he wasn't everything, you know, but I say this, and I know a lot of people look for any excuse, you know, to complain about somebody. If somebody does, if I agree with somebody on one thing, I'll work with them with that one thing. If I agree with somebody on eight or nine things at a 10, that's even better. But yeah, Tucker was definitely saying some stuff that you could have never imagined hearing on the most popular, you know, cable TV show in the world. So, yeah, it all happened that that transition from what white conservatives were then to what they are becoming really started in 2020. You know, it's interesting the way you're friends. So you mentioned Charlottesville. And I think that my conception of it is anyway. And I don't know if you see it the same way, you know, it seemed to me that there was this sort of convergence between race realism and the the the revolt against political correctness that was going on within the broader conservative movement was sort of at this intersection, you know, with the alt-right. And there was a sort of an uncomfortable dance going on, if you will. And then after Charlottesville, it seemed like everything hit the fan and everybody's like, let's get away from them because we're going to get a lot of trouble. And there was a there was this backing away from it, if you will. And then I guess that, you know, they sort of realized in 2020 that, you know, the other side's going to force the issue and they didn't really have a choice anymore. Is that well, it's just and they so are our enemies so overreacted to the threat that Trump was. I mean, they really, I guess saw him and I don't think they were pretending. I think they're to range mine. They saw him as this avatar of white supremacy and fascism, but he really wasn't. I mean, he certainly said things that white people liked more than any other president in my lifetime. You know, no doubt about that, but he didn't really do too terribly much. I think, you know, the prudent thing would have been for them to have just said, hey, here's this blip on the radar, we're waiting out and then we'll go back to sitting on the football and letting demographic replacement run its course. But I think they so overreacted they have this such a crazed hatred of white America that they really overreacted in a way that might end up being ironically our salvation. I think they have the left and the system has done more to wake up our people than all of us collectively could have ever done. Even before a censorship of deep platform. In a course of in a course of you being a thought criminal on the sort of on the outside of the respectable beltway Republican, if you will, I wouldn't expect you to name names, but have you sort of had like back channel communications with with recognizable names, anything like that that you might care to discuss? Yeah, that we have. And of course, you know, one that I can mention because he's come on publicly three times now himself in just the last few months, the Steve King. Of course, he's a former congressman now, but Steve King's been fantastic. Yes, I definitely think that more people are beginning to get it. Certainly you see these holdouts now in the budget debate. Yes, she's not perfect and sometimes she's infuriating, but people like even Marjorie Taylor Green saying, oh, 9-11, that the red states need to secede. I mean, that's some big stuff. I mean, imagine a sitting member of Congress saying, we need a national divorce. We need, you know, she's using even the word succession. My God, that would have been like unfathomable, the best thing ever 10 years ago. Never could we have never thought that you would have had somebody. I mean, that was just so far away, but now the whole idea is really gaining try. And of course, you know, there's just no way this nation's going to stay together. I don't know how it's going to, I don't know what the catalyst is going to be, how it's going to fall apart. It was going to be violent, hopefully to be like the Soviet Union where it just fades away. But there's just no way you can keep this quarreling tower of babble as a cohesive society. It's not a nation at all. A nation is one, one people, one culture, one language and faith and all of these ties that binds. And, you know, we're mini squabbling nations that are broken up into the red and the blue blocks. But the only thing keeping us together is, you know, vapid consumerism and a tenuous economy. When that falls, I think anything can happen. And I think a lot of people are ready for it to happen. I just don't see this whole thing. Of course, the rise and fall of empires and nations and civilizations as the tail is old as time. But I definitely don't think America's going to stick together. And the fact that you have, you know, setting members of Congress saying, hey, let's go ahead and get this on. You know, I think that's wonderful. I go, you know, how far we progressed. It was what the old saying, I butcher this every time. Sometimes, nothing happens in a lifetime. And sometimes the lifetime can happen in a week. I don't know. It's something like that. But you know, a lot of, there has been more forward progress in the last three years and in the last 30, 40, 50 years in this country. You know, I hate to do this to you, lie, but I don't have the benefit of commercial breaks as we do on the political cesspool. If I keep you a little bit past 11, 30 is that okay? Do you have a heart out or? No, no, as long as you think it's interesting, I'll be happy to say that. Well, I think that we're, we're, we're venturing into, I wanted to get, I wanted to get the history of the show in. And now, now we get to talk about ideas and I, and I definitely want to try to discuss them a little bit. And I'm glad to have a little bit of time to do that. Sure. And so, you mentioned a few times, you know, there's, I'd say that there's two different schools of thought and what has been described as a, as the dissident right or, you know, well, those many schools of thought clearly is, you know, different factions within it. But I think that, you know, there's, there's, there's one of the prominent arguments that I come into contact with is, you know, how to what degree does somebody have to be on our side before they're on our side, right? You've, you've mentioned this a few times. And, and I, I think that, I think that you're expressing a wise view of it here, which is that, you know, if these people are, are, you know, moving in our direction, why, you know, sort of chase them away has been my sort of view of it. And, but at the same time, the, you know, the, the, the, the people who would take the other side of the argument to be fair to them is like, well, you know, if you're not, if you're not pushing them in our direction, if you're not penalizing them for not going further than, you know, then, then, then what incentive do they have? You know, and so I'll, I'll ask you to speak to that. Well, I mean, you know, the whole, you can get more with honey than vinegar or whatever. You get the most lies or corpses is my experience. Okay, well, there's that. But, uh, well, again, you have a lot of people. I mean, sometimes, you know, when you're in a, a movement, actually, you know, I, I would say that our ideas are really have become mainstream now. I don't even consider myself outside of the mainstream anymore. I, I think, you know, it's certainly we're not in with the mainstream of, of, of the media, where, you know, the system hasn't embraced us. But tens of millions of people are ready to come to our table. And, but of course, yeah, I mean, the, you're going to have people who, again, look for any reasons to have a beef or to break the bonds of fellowship. People always look, people can justify anything. You can always justify a reason for not supporting somebody. But I, I don't know, I mean, you know, punishing somebody that's, you know, we're going to let the, the perfect be the enemy of the good here. I mean, and it would examine, you know, what examples are we talking about? And have it comes to the point where I get all the right, I say, you know what, guys are wrong about all of this. I actually hate myself and why people need to go. You know, that, that, that's something. But short of that for just tinkering on the margins and having a different, you know, approach with regards to tactics or messaging, you know, I think we need to, to have a little more tolerance there. I hate to use that word in terms of some of our fellow travelers. And sometimes people need to, to be given time because you can't go out and fight. You know, it's not like my Confederate ancestors were there being called up. You can't fight that way right now. And to a large degree, people are catching up to us. We don't have to do anything. People are catching up to us on their own timeline. And sometimes you can't speed up that timeline. People have to go through their own evolution as, as you and I did, Chris. And, you know, I certainly know if somebody was thinking about supporting me in 2004, 2005. And I can't support this guy because he's not with me on this issue. Well, again, you know, just give people some time. What do you think about, you know, this concept of the over 10 window, you know, the range of allowable discussion and how that moves, you know, I for a period of time, I had taken the, I had taken a position. And, you know, the position I had was, okay, the way that I, the way that I changed the window of allowable opinion is to sort of take the, the, the, the, the, the furthest edge of that conversation, then move just beyond it and try to, you know, sort of drag the conversation with me. I've been sort of, I'll let you speak to that before I speak of my conception. No, no, I mean, yeah, we need to move the over to window. We need to continue to move in a logical progression. And when the left uses progress, progress means something's getting progressively worse, but no, we need to continue to bring people along at pace. But the best way to do that is by being normal. I think that that's one of the reasons that we've been able to stick around for two decades in a very hospital climate with all of the deplatforming and all of the censorship and all of the attacks is because, if anybody actually looks into, to me and my lawyer, they're going to say, okay, well, this guy's married, he's got a family, he's, he's, he's, you know, kind of presentable, he makes good appearance, and he looks like somebody that's got his head on straight. And that's attractive, that's attractive. I mean, you need to have, certainly need to have the message, but you need to have presentation and packaging too. And, you know, we can, you know, that that's certainly one way you can get people. You know, this, this whole mean spirit, if you're not everywhere, I want you to be, what I want you to be there, we're going to, we're going to attack you and, you know, you're a cut here, you know, this, you're that. Yeah, I mean, obviously, sometimes I wish some people, some certain people that I can't think of anybody in particular, but some influencers were a little further than they are, but if they're moving in the right direction, I think we could, we can take that before the time and be happy with it. It seems to me, we sort of like, you know, there was this, this axiom in the, in the, in the alt-right for a period of time, was don't punch right, okay? Whatever, if somebody's doing something to the right of you, you're not allowed to attack them, and if you do, then, then you're behaving disreputeably, and then people will attack you for it. And, you know, and for a time, I sort of bought ends of that. I remember I actually read the guy, the guy who I heard articulated best as a guy by the name of Bill Mark Chant ran a, ran a blog called Northern Reaction, and he wrote a piece titled Don't Punch Right where he sort of clarified the, the issue of it, and he actually had to be record a reading for it for an audio book that he released, and I was, I was into this for a period of time. And then, sort of after I, sometime after, I guess, things started going really haywire in, say, 2018, and he, he came out later with a piece of basically like, all right, look, look, I know I've said Don't Punch Right, but the Nazi stuff has got to go. You're the national enemy, and you're, you're offending your country, but in this is not going to work. It doesn't matter if, you know, what you agree with these people, and you're not going to reach these people. And, you know, I, I actually reached out to him, and after that, after reading that, and I was like, okay, well, that's, you know, that sort of thing to think about, and it was certainly, you know, it's certainly been my experience that, you know, when I had social media, and I had PayPal, and I had everything else, and, you know, all of these, you know, people who just wanted the edgiest thing around could, you know, pay me to do it. That seemed like a great idea. And then as things became more difficult, you realize like, I'm getting walled off, you know, I'm, I'm becoming completely isolated. I'm losing this contest, you know, and then I realized like, okay, there, there was some merit, I think, at some point to, okay, you know, some people just need to be shocked. You need to wake people up. You need to, you know, sort of shatter this paradigm, but there, there comes a point where you've, that, that you've gone beyond the over-can window. Now, now you're outside of it, you're just throwing rocks at the building, and it doesn't endear you to the people inside. Yeah, there's an argument to be said for that. I, you know, I have never gotten into any sort of movement beefs and infighting, and even though I think over the years, and this is something, again, that I will take a little pride in, I have been able to work well with all of the different organizations and all of the different personalities, people who could not be in the same room with one another, organizations that would not cooperate with one another. I've gotten along with all of them, and they've all gotten along with me, because again, you try to extend loyalty, you try to extend good faith, and you try to promote them for, you know, the areas that they're having some success in that, you know, is, is part of our program. And if there are groups out there that I don't think are going about it the right way, I will still never publicly attack them or protect them. I've always tried to fly above that kind of turbulence. We might not have them on the program, but I'm certainly not going to virtue signal or counter signal against them. You know, they're not our enemies. What do you think about the, the opposite viewpoint on that, which is, you know, all right, these people are hurting the movement as the phrase that's often thrown around, whether, whoever it might be, you know, people have ideas that, you know, this one's being a cock or this one's being too edgy, you know, this idea of hurting the movement and, and the need to stop the impulse to try to prevent people from harming the movement and therefore the need to intervene. I gather that you don't feel any particular urgency to do that yourself, but what do you think about that impulse? No, I don't at all. I, my, my reaction to that would be, I think the reaction that I would like everybody to take is, okay, well, we might not necessarily have them on, we might not be promoting them, but we've got bigger enemies out there than that. We've got bigger problems with that. I mean, our movement in the grand scheme of things is still, and I'm not going to say a drop in the bucket because I think collectively we have, turn the runner a little bit, you know, I think collectively, if you look at all of the organizations that are out there and all the different media out there, I mean, there's, you're definitely, you know, making a ping on the radar there to say the least. But as far as, you know, yeah, I have my personal opinions on, so, you know, group X or person Y, and I might not agree with it, but, and maybe I would talk to them behind the scenes, but as far as, you know, spending time and energy and ordinance, and going after these people and trying to debate them, I mean, I've always seen my job is, you know, we're looking at the bigger picture, the bigger picture is the survival of our people, not critiquing other people who are, who are doing things. When people tune into my program, I like to think that, you know, obviously a lot of people who tune into the show are very well informed about the different players and the different organizations, but I present every show as if the people tune in, don't know anything about any of this, and we're trying to give them message that, you know, they can take home, talk about, you know, in their church or in their, you know, community, you know, try to present the message in a way they can do that. I don't get on, you know, my show, it's like, you know, can you believe what Richard Spencer said the other day? You know, of course, I knew Richard for years and years and years, but I know a lot of people do that. I'm not saying that it's that's wrong, but that's not my approach. And I think our approach has certainly helped develop a wide range of cooperation and collaboration between a lot of these different personalities. And so, I mean, it seems, what I seem to take from you is a hopeful attitude about the future, which is sort of refreshing. I think that there's something of a divide within the movement now is to whether or not we're, you know, racing sort, towards some kind of cataclysm, whether the best thing that we can do is accelerate that process, whether the we should be participating in politics. I mean, and it's, and it's maybe you could clarify for me, because I sort of get the idea, I sort of get the vibe from you that you're hopeful about the future, but you think that the country as such, the United States cannot continue, cannot sustain itself as a contiguous system of government, it sounds like. And yet you seem hopeful about the future. Well, you know, because I understand Chris that, yeah, first of all, we have no future on this continent under the current trajectory. So unless there is some sort of, you know, radical change, and again, countries breaking off from one another, the redrawing of political boundaries, that's happened throughout history, countless times. And I don't think that there's anything, any sort of special magical force field that's protecting America from suffering that fate when you get into, you know, multi-cultural society, whether you don't have any sort of ties that binds or cohesion. So that's what I'm looking after. That's why I do have hope. My hope is not in the country. My hope is in the nation. You know, a country this, the lines on the map as they currently stand, this current form of government, our people can thrive and have thrived throughout our time under many different forms of government and many different places in the world. And so I am not hopeful about the future of the United States, but I am hopeful about the future of our people. And so whatever has to come to bring about this, you know, rebirth of our people here on this continent I'm fine with. So yeah, I kind of separate the two. I'm not hopeful about, you know, the current political situation, but I do believe that there will be something that comes. And the whole that that will give us an opportunity. I think all we can really realistically ask for is the opportunity for change because right now, again, I'm in this present system the way we're going, we're doomed. But I think now that you're sort of in this vortex where it's going to accelerate. Yeah, I don't necessarily find the argument go out there and do full-hardy things for the sake of, you know, acceleration. It's accelerating regardless of what we do. What we need to do is to create professional infrastructure, professional organizations, professional media, professional, whatever to be ready to provide leadership when those times have been certainly come. Whether it's an economic collapse or a nuclear war or I don't think, you know, the polarization, my friend Brad Griffin at Oxygen of the Sun has a good line on. Yeah, I love Brad. I mean, I mean, I rip off and I tell him this all the time. I rip off your content all the time to just speak it. Because he's a great political mind, but he said that the radicalization of the white Republican voter has gone vertical in the last few years. So it's happening. People are radicalizing. And I think that's a good thing. I use the word radicalization the best sets of the word. And things are accelerating because of what our enemies are doing. You know, with the, I mean, my god, we just look at the truck situation alone. That's not just unprecedented in the lives of any American living today has never happened in the history of the Republic from James Taylor, Femme Therock. You've never had a guy being attacked. You know, this is third world stuff for the, you know, successor blocks up as predecessor. I mean, so this is, I mean, yeah, so I mean, there's just no, there is no way. It's impossible. Not just because political tensions are high now, but it is just impossible that a multiracial society, you know, can have cohesion. And I know that we've always, you know, certainly had blacks in America, but it's just totally different. You've got every race of the sun, they're all squabbling over, over grievances and it's just, it's not, it's not going to stay together. Yeah. So again, we need to be ready for that and we need to be professional and we need to hope for that because if it doesn't fall apart, yeah, and you're going to sit on the ball, we're going to come Brazil or South Africa. Who knows? I should, I should thank Tyler the Berader. He sends $35. He says, um, another quality interview, stay curious and stay strong. Thanks for all you do. Sorry, I haven't donated before, but it's always family obligations first for me as I would certainly expect sir, but I think, uh, I thank you for, uh, uh, having met those obligations for helping to finance the production. Um, you know, as you described to me, uh, what your sort of vision is for the future here, I'm noticing that it seems to me that you, you have, uh, uh, a view that things are going to change in some dramatic fashion that you're not necessarily able to predict, but you're comfortable with that, it seems. And I imagine that this is informed by your faith. I know that this, you know, we sort of began talking about how that was your foundation for this. And, you know, um, there's, I'm sure you know, there's some, there's some difficulty in conceiving of this sometimes in ethno-nationalism that people think that Christianity is universalist and that we're all God's children. And therefore, you know, that this is antithetical to, to, uh, Christianity, you seem to take a different take to that and I'll ask you to sort of encapsulate that if you would. Well, we could spend two hours just on that, of course. I, I have heard, you know, I'll pick it apart a little bit. We'll, we'll talk about it. I'm interested in the subject. Uh, I, I have heard, of course, all of the criticism of Christianity that different people in our movement have. And, uh, of course, you know, a lot of, I have a lot of great friends who don't share the faith and don't, you know, I have not as, I think Tom Hanks put it in the Da Vinci code. I've not received the gift of faith or the received the gift of, of belief. But I mean, you know, certainly, uh, faith and heritage, but you know, rather than, you necessarily getting mired in this tall grass, you can still go to the faith and heritage archives. And they have a very good article. I think it's pinned to their homepage, a biblical defense of ethno-nationalism. But, um, you know, certainly if you go back to Europe, you could say that it was because of the faith that brought our people together. You, you had in Europe, going back, you know, obviously centuries, all of the nations of Europe as they still want to do up into the 20th century, they love to fight with one another. Uh, and they were very separate, you know, separated, uh, when the Muslim threat was very real, you know, Muslims, very much would have likely picked off the different European nations one by one because they were not coming together as a race. They were, they weren't coming together as a people. And it was actually, you know, of course Christianity that got them all together, Charles Martel, Yonso Bieschi at Tours in Vienna, respectively. And so you could, you could certainly go back to that. But, I mean, there are non-believers who are great on race that I have a wonderful relationship with. There are Christians that are, you know, very bad on some of these issues that I have a big problem with. Uh, so, you know, I'm, I'm very honest about that. There is a lot of problems with, with the church today. I had the benefit of growing up in a very small Southern Baptist congregation. It wasn't rural. It was in the outskirts of Memphis, but it was, it was small and it was traditional. It was conservative. And it was wonderful. It was a wonderful upbringing. And, you know, I don't know if you take away any of those ingredients. I don't know, you know, where I'm at. But of course, people who didn't go to church at all, that certainly arrived in our positions on race and other important issues. And I understand that. But it certainly worked for me. I don't think that there's anything inherently antithetical about the beliefs. I think, you know, there are a lot of Bible-believing Christians who are a part of our movement. I know a lot of them and some that are not. And of course, I, you know, not only was I expelled from the Southern Baptist Convention, my entire church was expelled because my pastor wouldn't throw me out as a member after it became known that, you know, I was a member of the Southern Baptist. This is something that I need to pick up in the, in my show prep. And that's, I imagine that was quite, I imagine that had to be a tumultuous thing. I mean, when did, in what year was this? Well, the SBLC wrote about it. Of course, let's see. I'd have to look it up. If you just google in with me now, ladies and gentlemen, James Edward Southern Baptist Convention, it should come up. I want to say it was around 2017. Okay. Let's just check. Yeah, here it is. Pastor Defend's White Nationalist Peritioner. This was, yeah, in the, well, summer of 2018. Okay. Yeah. So what happened? And that was now again, keep in mind, this is the same pastor that I'd had my entire life. Now we're all the way up to 2018. He was the reason that I met my wife. He officiated our wedding, you know, worked with me on my campaign, the lifelong friend. Something happens. You need him at two in the morning. He was always there. I, we actually, his birthday was the first week of September. He and my father have birthdays a couple of days apart. We all went out to lunch just earlier this month. So we're still in very close contact. He's retired now. But this was in 2018. So I'm 28. And you know, the last thing I ever wanted was, you know, for this to be a burden on him, but he had called me up. He called me up and he said, James, I just got a call from the Southern Baptist Convention. And they wanted to know if you remember the church and they had asked me to take action against you. And it was a civil pastor, you know, again, had this always called a pastor. I said, he'd been on my show several times. He had no problem with it. No problem at all. He would come on to do Eastern Christmas messages and would come on, even to font politics. Great guy. And one of my best friends in life's field of this day. That's it. Past, you know, I never wanted any of this. They ever come back on you. I always thought that, you know, there's possibility that it might. What had happened around in the Southern Baptist Convention at that time was you have this odious Russell Moore, if anybody who follows, you know, Protestant Southern Baptist politics and Russell Moore was this really grotesque guy who was the national spokesman for the Southern Baptist Convention, which was a bottom-up denomination. It's not like, you know, some of these mainline churches where they can swap out the priest or the rector whatever, each individual church was sort of sovereign. And they all came together in cooperation to form the denomination. Of course, the Southern Baptist Convention, the whole reason they came to be was because southerners in the 1850s split because of the debate as to whether or not slave owners could be missionaries. And of course, you know, the Southern Baptist were all in the Southern Catholic Confederacy. And it has become the biggest Protestant denomination in the world. It's been called, done more mission work than probably any church. And it all started from, you know, the southern side of the slavery and worked with the state's quif. This was the Genesis. But I just said to him, you know, I'm sorry that that happened. What are they, what are they saying? And he said, well, you know, they quoted the S. B. L. C. They said something CNN had said about you. And he said, you know, I'm just really upset that they've done this. And I said, well, pastor, you just, you know, you tell them whatever you need to tell them. This isn't your cross to bear. You tell them that you've kicked me out as a member. And I'll turn in my resignation. I just don't want this to negatively affect you with the church. He said, James, I'll never forget this. And I hope that one day somebody can remember me for extending this kind of loyalty because I, again, I say, I've never, you know, trained a brother. David Duke, I've gone on vacations with David Duke. He is personal friends of my family. We've been in each other's homes, his family is my family, and vice versa. And I've known him forever. And that is certainly somebody that they always try to tag me with with, you know, James Edwards is bad because David Duke is on his show. And I always try, if it's somebody, this is my, I'm going to get back. This is a parenthetical departure. I'll get back in the church door. But if I don't, of course, Chris, I've read a lot about you on the internet. But if somebody proves themselves to me personally, that's what I'm going with. A nearly half of it might have some truth to it. I think I got your name right. But I, if somebody proves themselves to me, I'm not going to be moved to withdraw from standing shoulder to shoulder with them. So when I get attacked for David, dude, I think it, well, you know, hey, do you know David Duke? Have you spent time with him? Do you know anything about it? I want you, because they expect you to, like, again, sort of acquiesce or start to shelfle your feet when I say, you know, we're going to write about, you know, your, your interviews and associates with David Duke. I said, well, be sure to say this. Don't just say that I've interviewed. I want you to put that he's a close personal friend of mine. And that's what I want you to put in the article. I want you to, I want to be clear about that. And so that's just the way you got to do. You just got to own it. If somebody has proved themselves to you, if they are a good man in your estimation, do not ever let these creeps blow you all. That's the way I extend, loyalty. But it is hard to expect it back because it's just not, I mean, when people are under fire, man, a lot of those convictions can go. And, and I even tried to, you know, convince my pastor, just do what you need to do. I'm asking you to do it. Not only what I'm not, bad of you, not only what I'm not be upset, I'm asking you pastor, just tell him that you've, you know, I'm not a member anymore. We'll just, you know, I'll still of course go to church, but that's just what we'll do. He said, this is what he said. I'll never forget how he put it. I'll never forget the tone of his voice. It's really fatherly and manly. He said, James, you know, I love you. He goes, but what I'm doing, I'm not doing because I love you. I'm doing it because it's the right thing to do. And he just told them that he would not take action against me, that he finds no reason to take action with me. And, you know, the SPLC covers some of that, the article, because we had him on the radio to talk about it, you know, after all that, he wanted to come on and, and, and publicly, you know, address this. And so what the Southern Baptist Convention ended up doing, because he wouldn't expel me as a member, they just fellowshiped the entire church. Yeah. So, uh, that's, that's it. That's it. It's amazing. This is a bit his lifelong, you know, career and call. And, and, and the entire church, by the way, the entire membership stood, but, you know, so behind me, too, that's, it's really rare. That was going to be my next question. So, so there was among the rank and file of the, of the congregation, there was not a revolt within the, without, within the congregation. Zero. Not one. And I think again, and again, you know, you could certainly prove yourself to be a friend and a brother and all of these things that, you know, you would hope would foster a sense of loyalty and bond, but you just, again, you just never know with people. But now, you know, of course, it was a smaller congregation. We ran about 50, 60 people on Sunday mornings, you know, and things like that. It was a smaller congregation. It was an older congregation, but I've gone there my whole life. My parents had gone there, uh, you know, ever since they had gotten married. My grandparents are my dad's side before that. So they just said, you know, no, you know, that's fine. We're still going to be the church. The church is still the church. We're just not going to have, you know, Southern Baptist Convention by us, which, which, you know, it was, it was a terrible thing because, you know, in so much as I expected more out of, you know, Southern Baptist, but I guess, you know, what they'd become by that point, I probably shouldn't have. But no, it was a, yeah, that was just another, another story in, in the life and times, but he's certainly sent an example. It's a very interesting one. Um, you know, before we, I kind of still want to go in that vein, but I'd be neglecting of you and of the audience. You had, um, you sent to me a lawsuit about, um, you just sued somebody for defamation. Tell me about that. Oh god, about that one. Thank you, yeah, I, yeah, that's, uh, okay, yeah, that's another whole story. So we had, um, we had applied for press credentials to a Donald Trump rally in late February of 2016. So this is right before Super Tuesday. And you could go to his website and, you know, put in your press and, you know, put in your application for press credentials, he's going to be coming to Memphis. So, you know, I wanted to get press credentials. I'm on the EM radio by, you know, I've got a show and, uh, I put in all the information James Edwards, you know, here's the station, here's the call letters, here's the website, you know, all of that. And, you know, I thought we'd had a puncher's chance, but I wasn't really too excited about the prospects. But, uh, they got back with me in about 24 hours and said that the press credentials had been approved. And I know for a fact, that they didn't just blanket approve everybody. You know, that came out in the media pretty quickly. Uh, that there was a black newspaper in the area that got turned down. I don't know, a couple of other people that got turned down. So whatever the case was, uh, I think that they must have looked into us and allowed it because again, not everybody got in. And, um, you get that about the secret service. You have to, you know, turn over your name and social security stuff and all that. You get, you know, they do a background check presumably. I don't know what they do. But anyway, you got, you got to get cleared by the secret service. So then I got my first credentials. And I got the broadcast and said just so happened. I was just saying, dip it in, that Trump was doing a rally in Memphis on a Saturday night, which is our live broadcast time. You know, so because we're live on these stations, we have a dedicated time, time slot, but we can't just, you know, record a show anytime we want. We have to, you know, do it when it's live. And I was able to broadcast the show from the press pin while he's speaking. You know, it's just, you know, certainly a standout show and the entire history of our run. And it was a wonderful experience. And I thought that would be that. And then inexplicably, uh, the next day, the next morning, I get an email from, it's not directly from the Trump campaign, but it's from their booking agency. They had like a third party guy that was doing their booking. And he emailed to James Edwards at the political cesspool.org. And he asks, would you be interested in interviewing Donald Trump Jr. this week? Yeah, of course, I'd be interested. By now, I'm thinking, well, they got to know what they're getting into and they got to want it because we already got looked into, at least, you know, cursory look into. And now I'm getting an email. I certainly never in the history of, of the show had another campaign surrogate for any Republican or Democratic candidate email me asking if we, you know, have a long. Yeah. So we ended up having Donald Trump Jr. on. And it was, we actually had to take that thing because he only had availability on a super Tuesday. So we taped it and aired it later. But it was like the morning of super Tuesday. And he stayed twice as long as, as he was supposed to. We asked him to stay longer. He stayed longer. That's the most important day the campaign to that point. And he's agree with everything. I was saying things like, you know what, we got to get immigration under control. I want your dead to be our Charlemagne. He's like, oh, yeah, man, that's it. He's just was having a good time. And then of course, it, uh, I mean, man, as much media as I've gone through. And up into that point, I got to say, Chris, that was, of course, 2016 March, super Tuesday of 2016. I think by that point, I'd been covered by every, every major press organ in the United States and many others around the world. I mean, there wasn't many that hadn't, and taking a swipe at it's at some point or another New York Times Washington Post, I mean, all the big ones Foxy and MSNBC. We'd either been on there, or at least been talked about, and almost all major national press in America. But there was never, I'd never been any through, thing, through anything like that. And it caught on real quick. I mean, you can, you can look up the headlines folks. Just do James Edward Donald Trump. And you're going to see some of these headlines. And it was everything and everywhere all at once. And it was probably the biggest news story in the country that, that particular week. Donald Trump, son gives, you steps into the spotlight and interview with white supremacists. And of course, everything was white supremacist neo-Nazi. So one of them, I think, I don't know if it was Reuters or who said I was a slavery loving radio host and all that. I mean, it was something. And it was just a crushing amount of media. And of course, as always, I released this, I couldn't even respond to all of the press inquiries. I just put a statement up saying, I apologize for nothing and I retract nothing. Basically just owning it, you know, just resolute. And it made, you know, a lot of them printed that. But, yeah, but to add to your question about the lawsuit, one of the media outlets that reported on it was the Detroit news, which is the daily newspaper that services Detroit. That's their major daily. And in this article, they wrote that I was the leader of the Ku Klux Klan. And I was like, you know, you know, Cobb Risto. I know of Kyle Bristo, yeah. Well, Cobb Risto is an attorney in Michigan. And he's not just, okay, he's my friend and he's got a law license. He is a brilliant attorney. You ask any peer that have read any of his briefs and his research and the way he goes about presenting an argument? I don't think he has a superior. He is an absolute genius. And I ask Kyle, you know, I see this article. And, you know, what's the, at one point, are you actually getting into libel? I don't even let him know what was in the article. I just like, you know, I was just wondering. I'm just curious. We're actually in Dallas. We're at an event in Dallas that he just happened to be there. And I ran into it. I knew the attorney Memphis and we knew each other. I was like, hey, Kyle, I don't know you were going to be here. But hey, let me ask you this. Lider, you know, they call us white supremacist Nazis. When is it actually, is there any such thing as libel? He's like, yeah, actually, you know, this is interesting. All of that other stuff legally is known as rhetorical hypergaly. That's constitutionally protected free speech. That's their opinion, whether it's real or imagined. They can call you not see white supremacist. They can call you all that. That's free speech. That's first amendment. I said, okay, well, that's fine. But, you know, and obviously, I've been called that my whole life. So, you know, nothing new there. But I said, what, what do you say? There is something that constitutes libel. What is it? And he said, well, if you look in the restatement of towards, you know, the statement of towards what's that? He said, well, it's sort of like the legal bible. It's supposed to inform judges and attorneys, you know, officers of the court, you know, help inform their decisions and how they go about things. The textbook definition of libel, according to the restatement of towards, is to a led that somebody is a member of the Ku Klux clan. And of course, I was just, you know, knock me over with the phone. I said, well, what if they called you the leader of the Ku Klux clan? He said, oh, yeah, you know, that for sure. And I say, well, look, look at this. And he said, James, you want me to take this case? He said, this is black and white. You cannot lose this case. And he goes, you know, we don't want to do it just to make a point. We're not going to do it just because we don't like the media. But, you know, obviously, you live in Memphis, you know, you don't want to live in a majority black city and have a be public record that you're the leader of the clan. I, you know, I certainly think that we can get a published retraction. And I think we can win this case if you want to pursue it. And I said, yeah, you know, let's do that. Let's set the record straight because at some point, you got to, you got to stop the, you know, the line you got to say, but this is libel. And again, you know, your public, you know, your public figure. Yeah, you have to overcome the barrier of what's known as actual malice, which is a different situation from a person who's not like figure. I've done some looking into the subject because you might, you might be shocked to know that the press has been unfair to me a couple of times. And, you know, but it is, it is a very high barrier. But as you are, you're describing a situation when a lawyer is trained, they're like, well, if they say that you're a member of the Ku Klux Klan, that that is the, that's how they train a lawyer, that on the difference between calling you a racist and when you actually cross into the line. And this is precisely what happened to you, except in a more extreme case, if I could just, it might seem like a small detail, but you have said the leader of the Ku Klux Klan that they said, the or a leader. Okay. Okay. And so, okay. So continue with the story. So he takes the case and what's what's the progression from there? All right. So he was, he decided to file it in state court, not federal. And I can't remember the conversation. He, you know, we kind of weighed our options and we could have gone either way. Obviously, if you go to a federal court, you appeal up to the Supreme Court. If you do it in state court, the the the the the gay men's at the Michigan Supreme Court, but, but he filed it in state court. He thought that he had a pretty good jurisdiction there and and that it was just such a black and white case that we'd go in. And we didn't ask for a lot of money. I mean, it wasn't about that. It was just about saying, hey, you know, that we, that we got to put a stop to what you're able to say, you know, somebody's got to, got to take a stand and we had an opportunity to do it and we thought it was an airtight case. And we thought there was actual damage and all that. But I mean, it wasn't like one of these things, like you spilled coffee from McDonald's on you and you you sue for five million dollars. I think it was basically pretty much just like cost it a little bit more like ten or twenty thousand dollars we were asking for. But, um, filed it and just got immediately. And then, you know, of course, they've got the biggest the Detroit News got the biggest baddest law firm in the state of Michigan on their side. And we filed it in this the trial level court and we get immediately dismissed. I mean, we don't even get to proceed. It's just rejected out of hand. I was like, well, I'll be damned. I can't hear you. What do you think? I'm surprised. I mean, the law is the law. And he incited all of these precedents. I mean, and what, and just the restatement of torts. If you, if anybody could read this and I've still got all the briefs, of course, of my archives and all the filings and all the responses and all of that. But he said, no, we got I would like to appeal this to the Court of Appeals, you know, surely they just. And so we went to the Court of Appeals in Michigan. And in this one, it was, you know, we were asking for a jury trial, but we had to, you know, obviously be granted a discovery and actually move forward with this, you know, to get to that. We had at least be let into court, you know, with the lawsuit. And this one was the Court of Appeals. It was a panel of three judges, a panel of three judges. So we filed the suit in 2016. This was published in March of 2016 when we're just getting that huge crush of publicity and, you know, in response to the Donald Trump Jr. interview. It's by the way, the establishment really thought, I guess, that that was going to hurt Trump, the fact that his son had, you know, talked to me because that, they continued on with that. That was in the press consistently from March of 16 through November. Henry Clinton even used it into campaigning. And I am not exaggerating. It was in the wash three different stories in the Washington Post of one day. That summer, months after. So anyway, New York Times have been unated. But this, so we'd filed it in March. And by the time, you know, we're to the Court of Appeal now, it's already the fall of 2017. And then we got word that they had issued a published decision, which is pretty rare. And it was a published decision that came out. And this actually got some news. I think National Public Radio covered it and it got some news in Michigan, especially. Published decision was released on this case by the Michigan Court of Appeals on Halloween day 2017. And I got it. And I got it before I talked to Kyle. So I was reading it before I knew what it happened. And I read the, I read the opening part of the decision, which I, reading it right now here. Again, Hillary Clinton would always say that Google it. You can do James Edwards, Detroit News decision. And you'll find it pretty easy. I read the first paragraph of this. And I was like, you know what? Because a lot of people were telling me there's no way I visited nobody and openly pro white guy can win in court no matter what the law says. And at that point, I'm not going to say I was naive. But I certainly wasn't jaded enough to think that an open and shut slammed up black and white libel case like this. I was just thinking, well, they probably wouldn't want a rule for me. I get that. But I just, you know, the law is the law. And I have certainly, entirely, I moved from that train of thought. I mean, now the only thing that matters in the court is what side you're on. You might have a puncher's chance in a rural conservative area. But Trump is right. He's got zero chance. Trump is going to go to prison. Trump is going to be found guilty in Washington DC with the black judge from Jamaica. And you know, you know, 90% if not 100% black jury. He's done. The only thing that matters is not what the law is, but what side you're on at this point in the American experiment. That's where we're at now. But in 2016, 2017, I was thinking we would probably do well with this case. And he was what the decision read. The restatement of towards list membership in the Ku Klux Klan is the quintessential illustration of a defamatory statement. In an opinion piece, I'm reading directly from the judge's decision. In an opinion piece in the Detroit news columnist, Ban Cole Thompson asserted that Radio Talk show host James Edwards is a leader of the Ku Klux Klan. There is no record evidence to suggest that Edwards holds a formal leadership position in the Ku Klux Klan, nor is there any record evidence to suggest that he is even a member. So I read at that point and I was like, yep, so this is what we were arguing. Yeah, going pretty good. And then it gets into, then it goes straight into this. Mindful of Esom's lesson, a man is known by the company he keeps, we hold that Edwards cannot make claims of defamation or invasion of privacy and affirm summary disposition in favor of the defendants. And then they have cited here, not any sort of case precedent, not any sort of of law, but a site. Fables. Great site. The ass and his purchaser from Esom's Fables. And then it went on to, well, and then it went on beyond that. The company he keeps, they were talking about Sam Vixon who in his 50 year legal career in the 70s, he wants to defend a guy who wasn't a clan. And David Duke, of course, who of course hasn't been in the clans since the 70s and since was elected to the Louisiana State House of Representatives and was the Republican nominee for governor of the state of Louisiana. So that was my links and ties to the clan. But yeah, so that was it. And so we had been just routed on the top court level and the court of appeals. So I was just, you know, no, we're not going to appeal this to the Michigan Supreme Court because then you know, you start to worry about getting sanctioned. You know, you're going to say, well, you're finding frivolous lawsuits now. You've been, you've been routed. Obviously, this case has no merit. That was a published decision that actually rewrote, uh, liable president of the state of Michigan. Yeah. Uh, that definitely is a rewriting of the law that, you know, um, to go, I, I suppose they found somewhere in the eminences and penumbras of the constitution that you're allowed to, uh, that, you know, if, if you have ever spoken to somebody who happens to have had a history with the Ku Klux clan that, uh, thereby you could be called the leader there of and that, I mean, they know they can do it and they know that they can do it. And they know that we don't have any recourse. And again, it just, that's what I understood. Okay. Well, all that matters is what side you're on. And then they went into this, they try to explain that, well, you know, the word leader might not mean what you think it means. If I, if I say you're the leader of something, that means like not only you part of the organization, you are, it's head. You're one of its chiefs. Yeah. And they're saying like, well, on his radio program, he says things that members of the clan, you know, might agree with. And so therefore he's a leader in that way. You understand there's different conditions. So it was all of that. But anyway, so that was that a stretch that they would not take, you know, had had one of us been sued for, you know, the equivalent in the other direction. Right? Obviously, wouldn't have done that. No, law was law in that case that the shoes on the other foot, you know, they're going to just stand on, on what the law was. Wow. This case. And then it's going to very trivial thing compared to what you've gone through, Chris, very trivial. I mean, we were the plaintiffs in this case. I didn't, you know, have to, you know, go to prison or do any of this as a lot of dissidents do. But it was definitely an eye opening thing to just how criminally corrupt the system is and how there is no. This is I think something that's very key. And what the audience has to know is at this stage of the rot of the system and all of its organs, the government elections, the courts, the media, the universities, even, you know, frankly, a lot of churches, at least at the, the head table level and not the local body. The rot is so deep, there is no reform. We cannot reform this system. Our people have no future in this system. Our only salvation is going to come through some sort of a balkanization or a breakup or a succession. And then we try to do better. And I've gotten to that point where I say, this is something I say and any speech that I give now, I don't want to make America great again. I want to move on from it and learn from the mistakes because I just think that's the only way where people are going to make it. And that's my primary concern, not keeping together this arbitrary 50 states we've got or this, you know, current system and form of government and the free branches and all that. The only thing I really care about is is my people and what's best for them, they're my family. And I'm raising work in the family. And in the in the course of, you know, preparing for that, for that future, I mean, do you think that it's worth participating in the political system such as it is, you know, while we venture towards this outcome that you foresee? Yes, yes, I mean, yes, anything that furthers us down the road to this, what I believe is an inevitability is good. I mean, so as far as voting, do I think my votes being Canada right? I mean, maybe, maybe not. Maybe it is. Maybe it is. I don't know. But I'm certainly going to vote for Trump because I think he's an agent of chaos. I'm certainly voting for Trump the first two times, certainly didn't vote for him with as nearly as much vigor as an enthusiasm in 2020 as I did in 2016. And then of course, you know, he started repopulating his administration with all of these Neocon retreads and bush, you know, I feel holdovers. But it is because of Trump. If you still have this alternate timeline where you were going through elections like Bush versus Kerry and McCain versus Obama and Romney versus Obama, what they wanted to be Hillary Clinton versus Jeff Bush, you're going through that. You're just waiting to die. I mean, you've got no hope. Trump, I think, in it verbally. I don't think he intended to do any of this. He was certainly saying things we like and he said things that got them robbed up and our people robbed up. But I think inadvertently, he has been this agent that has given us this opportunity to see some sort of a partition of America, which is I think what we're going to need and what we're going to have to have. So as far as, yeah, I mean, you know, if you've got people like again for all of her faults and they're playing them just using her as an example because she said it recently. Now, the day she's most recently said it, she had said it before. But to say it on 9-11 was very provocative for Martin Taylor Greene to say, look, you know, we need a national divorce. The red states need to secede. And that's being spoken in no uncertain terms that message. So yeah, somebody like Kerr, I would support through the traditional political ways for that reason, if nothing else. And Trump just being obviously this you know, agent of chaos, I think, you know, the system needs pressure applied against it. And and Trump's the guy, even though he didn't mean to be, and even though he doesn't intend to be, but it's just their reaction to him that has given us this wonderful opportunity because if it was just the same old Republican versus Democrat that we'd seen time and time and time again, cycle after cycle, you would have never had this level of polarization that I think is necessary for what needs to come. Well, you know, I'm going to have to, I'm going to have to have you back on and we're going to have to hash that out because I definitely wouldn't want to keep you till sunrise to try to figure out where that goes. You've been generous with your time and I'm and I'm grateful for it. What what have I missed? What do you want to get out there before we wrap it up for the night? Oh man, I, first of all, I just want to thank you again for, for letting me come on. As I said, I want to reiterate, I'm a big fan of yours. And I hope, look, I want to see a few more live stream contributions there, a few more tips and the, and the jug. I'd settle if they would just hit that fire button on Odyssey, you know, I mean, it's like, you know, you got half these people would just, you know, they don't send any money, they don't hit the fire button, you know, like share, subscribe, whatever it is, you know, if they would just, you know, send some approval my way. I'd be grateful, but yeah, go ahead, continue. I'm sorry. No, please, please do support the worker, Chris Cantwell, radical agenda. You've definitely got a guy here who's been through a lot of it, been through really, in many ways, a lot more than I have. I haven't gone to jail for my beliefs yet. I always tell my, my wife, if, and we're not going to give them any reason to come, we're not going to have a came from violence, we're not going to do anything illegal, we're even going to pay our taxes and all that other stuff. But if you get a knock on the door, you have one word in your vocabulary, lawyer, lawyer, lawyer, lawyer, they're not there to be your friends. So, you know, we've tried that. I'm not doing anything to welcome the knock on the door, but you've been there and I just know that in the system, this corrupt, they can, they can do anything they want, you know, really, and they certainly have a look what they've done with the president. The president is not safe, you know, certainly, you know, talk radio hosted and say, or none of us will say. But yeah, as far as what to add, I mean, we've covered so much, I really enjoyed the opportunity to talk a little bit about some of the more interesting chapters and stories. I mean, we could go on 20 years trying to crush that down into a couple of hours as an impossibility. And I'm sure I'm, we're going to get off. I'm going to say, man, I wish I'd told that story. I think that would have been interesting. But we covered, we covered some of this stuff. And of course, we're still out there doing it every week. We got another show tomorrow night and onward and upward. And I think we do get a little bit better every year, even after all these years. I think with continued repetition and getting a little bit older, I think, you know, we do a better job now than we did five years ago. It's certainly looking back on those early shows from the mid 2000s. I just cringe. I don't know how we would be able to survive. You know, the training will stays. But we've got a great network of support. And it's wonderful to work with Minnevonner and men who are doing their duty. And that's the thing too. I guess that would be the last thing I'd want to say. I certainly am hopeful. I mean, some of it is, as you said, grounded in the faith. And we're going to be okay ultimately if not on this earthly realm the next. But that's really not what I'm about in my political advocacy in terms of, you know, I want to win here too. And but no matter what, we're going to do our duty. That was one of Robert E. Lee's great quote, to do your duty and all things. And that's the most sublime word in the English language. You should always wish to do your duty. You cannot do more. You should never wish to do less. And I guess it in a way, tangentially Robert E. Lee's sort of a reason we're talking tonight. Your participation in Charlottesville, that's monument being sort of the reason for that event that day in August of 2017. So I think it'll be appropriate to end with that quote maybe. Well, you know, there's so much that we could say very clearly James, but I'm going to have to have you back on to say it because it's obviously you're a very interesting guy with, as I said, a rich and fascinating history that goes back a long time. A lot of a lot of great stories to tell. And I'm and I'm so grateful for you taking the time to be on here tonight. And thank you so much for adding me to the amazing line of us, you know, distinguished guests that you've had on the political cesspool. And the show airs, it airs on Saturday nights on what time do you air again? Every Saturday night, seven to ten Eastern, we're central times. I always say six to nine, but if you every say what time you're on everybody's going to think Eastern. So seven to ten Eastern six to nine central, we got to Ed Brado on tomorrow night. I wrote the book of the war against Wyze. It was the Amazon number one best seller. And he comes from a like a Fortune 500 business background. So that again, just another guy who, and even writes in the book, you know, 30 years ago, I'd have never seen myself writing a book like this. And so we're going to kind of find out what compelled him to leave, you know, he was, you know, serving as like a fixer or a negotiator of like these major corporations like Hayat and Starbucks and Goldman Sachs and he's writing, you know, I got right here. I got a review copy here. The war on Wyze, how hating Wyte people became the new national sports. He's going to make his first appearance on the show tomorrow. And so again, I mean, there's definitely something going on now that, you know, certainly you did not see prior to the very recent here and now. Well, you know, there's the, some people say it's a Chinese curse to say, may you live in interesting times, but I hate to live in boring times if I'm honest with you. So maybe we're born in such as this James. I tell you, it certainly would have been maybe a little more comfortable, but I, you know, this is all I've done my entire don't like. It's it's animating to be involved in the struggle of your day. I think it sort of stirs that fostering spirit, you know, that made us who we are, made Western man who they are. And you know, certainly, you know, talking on the radio and getting called names in the media, pales in comparison to selling over the horizon and scaling the summits and doing what Columbus and Cortez did, but, you know, we could do the best we can with what we've got. And I definitely love to come back. We can talk about going down the Salmuths down in Selma with Jared Taylor. Line of story. We toured Selma the other day. That was just a couple of weeks ago. Got all kinds of behind-the-scenes stuff. That's fun stories to tell. Thank you. Thank you for another hour. Thank you, sir. I will, I'm going to end the video conference with you. And I will reach out to you right after I wrap it up with the audience. Thank you very much for your time, sir. Okay. Ladies and gentlemen, I know that my camera just went dark on you, but I'm going to bring that back online right now. And I'll bring this camera over here. We want this thing. And here we are. There I am. Okay. Now, let's bring this down there. Okay. Beautiful. All right. Ladies and gentlemen. So, oh, wow. That was a great conversation. And obviously could have gone on a lot longer. But we had to be, we're going to have to we're going to have to have them back on again, for sure. He's a really interesting guy. Thank you so much to maybe next time. Says here you go. $3. Elias $25. Again, without much of a message to read. Keck App sends awesome show, Chris. Thank you. As always, you're a fantastic interview. Thank you, Mr. Edwards, for all of your work on behalf of our people, as well as taking the time to come here and share your insight with us. Please do come back. So I will relay that message to Mr. Edwards. I'm sorry. I didn't read it to him before we before we closed it out. Thank you all so much for tuning in. Thank you to those of you who did express your approval through the means by which the platforms give you the opportunity to do that. Thank you, especially to those of you who paid for it. If you're listening at some other time, and you'd like to pay for it, after the fact, lots of ways for you to do that. Christopher Kentwell.net slash donate my cash tag. If you got the cash out thing, it's edgy Chris. You can get more of my Bitcoin and my Monero and all that stuff as a Christopher Kentwell.net slash donate. Givesingo.com slash SPM if you would like to pay in that way. And of course, you can and should become a member at surrealpolitiques.com slash join lots of benefits being constructed for you as we speak. In addition to our Wednesday members only show. And I'm really I'm glad to do these interviews. You know, I try to space them out a little bit because you know, we do a call in show and I want to be able to do an uncensored call in show and try to do them, you know, to do that to do these things every week. You could get a little it would push that out essentially. But I love these interviews. And you guys seem to like them too. So we're going to do more of that. And I'm really glad to be able to do it. I thank you so much for the opportunity to do this with and for you. It's a great privilege and a great honor to be able to speak with really interesting really smart guys like James who have you know, really put in a lifetime of work towards trying to do something that is not easy. And and you know, meets a lot of resistance. But you know, whatever it is that drives a man to do it. You know, I I would have liked to have drilled down on the fate thing with him more. I think that that's, you know, a really interesting subject that, you know, I have an interesting interaction with that as you know. I mean, if you've been listening for a long time, you know that, you know, I have a shall we say a complicated relationship with this where, you know, I sort of, I sort of have this conception where, you know, I have to I'm driven to do things that are not necessarily obviously in my best interest, let's say. And, you know, driven as if by a higher, you know, sense of obligation, right? And I think that that'll be an interesting thing to discuss with with him and other people as we go forward because it's an interesting subject to me anyway. And I think it will be for you to. All right. So anyway, now that I'm all out of words and I'm fumbling all over the place, let's go check in with Ann Kulters. She's going to say goodnight to you. And we'll be back Monday, of course, for surreal politics Wednesday for the surreal politics, Mambo Chat and then next Friday, we'll be back. I have a guest appearance coming up very soon. I'll post about it. You should be on my mailing list. And then you'll know all about these things. Christopher Cantwell.net slash subscribe. And thank you so much for tuning into a radical agenda. Have the best weekend with the ones you love. That's it. It's over. Then we organized the death squads for the people who wrecked America. You know what you call people you can't talk to? enemies. And if we want to divide our society into armed camps for the enmity, all we have to do is keep doing what we're doing. A radical agenda, the event has turned into an opportunity to the left to push a racial agenda. Radical agenda. Implementing their radical agenda is the only thing they feel about their bad habits. But they want to do here this brand, their radical agenda, down your throat. This is great American. She's a people that want to see great things that they got to do. You know, they try and build a life here. One of the radical agenda. It's not a radical agenda. Let's go. The Second Amendment. Fuck you, pain.